Does the EArth Really Move?

[whatsitmean]

Speaking of gravity, I've been wondering about this verse:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Everythig seems to be taken quite literal in that passage except the part in bold. The "as a fig tree" part seems to give it a very clear and obvious meaning. How many ways can you interpret figs falling from a tree when it is shaken?

[apothanein kerdos]

two words:

oi vey

[alecia]

I dont think that is meant to be literal.. if even ONE star 'fell' to the earth, there would be nothing left at all.. no islands or mountains, or people hiding. The entire planet would not even exist anymore.. and thats just from a single star, let alone plural starS.

I think that verse must be representative of something else, and that at the time they didnt realize that the stars are actually much MUCH larger than the earth itself.

If the sun were a basketball, the earth would be something like a pea, or a marble.. I forget the actual dimensions but the sun is a great many times larger than the earth, and the sun isnt even a really big star.. its only somewhat large. There are stars that are many times larger than our sun, and some stars are much smaller.. our sun is somwhere in the middle. So.. imagine something like the sun, (or even bigger) crashing into the earth.

Edited August 17, 2004 by alecia

[alecia]

And really, even if a good sized meteor hit the earth it would still destroy it, it wouldnt even have to be the size of the earth, it could be quite a bit smaller and still destroy the earth. If anything like that happens, it would have to be a meteor shower, meteors the size of melons or maybe as large as cars.. in order for everything in that verse to still be able to take place.

[nebula]

Hi, Alecia!

You like astronomy?

[Adstar]

Speaking of gravity, I've been wondering about this verse:

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Everythig seems to be taken quite literal in that passage except the part in bold.  The "as a fig tree" part seems to give it a very clear and obvious meaning.  How many ways can you interpret figs falling from a tree when it is shaken?

Hey i was looking at this thread this morning and i just saw it again and was amazed that it had so many replies So i had to look again out of curiosity looks like you have given this thread a topic whatsitmean.

Now when we look up into the night sky and we see a bright streak of light coming down to earth what do we call it? We call it a falling star of course. Now how long do you think people have been calling falling stars , "falling stars"? Well since before Jesus was a boy. Now we know it is not an actual falling star we know its just a peace of space debris burning up in our atmosphere as it falls at great speed through it. But we still call it a falling star. So we can see the description in 6:13 for what it is a meteor shower. Maybe the earth and the solar system for that matter might enter into a dust/debris cloud at the time of this happening or maybe it will be debris returning to the earth from a comet impact on earth?

Revelation 8:8

Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.

Now think of what happens when a big piece of space rock the size of a mountain comes smashing down upon earth from space Now what if this great mountain is made of something like iron? You know to give it a bit more energy and shock value. Would it cause a massive shock wave to travel through the crust to the planet causing a big global earthquake? Now when one of these big things hits its energy kicks up a massive amount of superheated debris from the earth

[whatsitmean]

I dont think that is meant to be literal..

Then what would be the point in the passage? The stars are literal, if the earthquake, the sun and the moon and everything else in the verse are literal. We are even given an unmistakable mental picture. The writer says' "You know how fruit falls from a tree when it is shaken? That is how the stars will be when the sixth seal is broken."

if even ONE star 'fell' to the earth, there would be nothing left at all.. no islands or mountains, or people hiding. The entire planet would not even exist anymore.. and thats just from a single star, let alone plural starS.

That's true if the stars are what science tells us they are. But if they are what they say they are, stars couldn't even make the journey unless they started a very long time ago and would be seen as a collapsing universe rather than an expanding one.

Even if the stars were tiny, we would be up to our ear lobes in them if they fell to earth.

I think that verse must be representative of something else, and that at the time they didnt realize that the stars are actually much MUCH larger than the earth itself.

Who is the "THEY" you are speaking of? If you belive the text is inspired, you wouldn't say the author didn't know how big the stars are or how this was going to happen, would you?

Now when we look up into the night sky and we see a bright streak of light coming down to earth what do we call it? We call it a falling star of course. Now how long do you think people have been calling falling stars , "falling stars"? Well since before Jesus was a boy. Now we know it is not an actual falling star we know its just a peace of space debris burning up in our atmosphere as it falls at great speed through it. But we still call it a falling star. So we can see the description in 6:13 for what it is a meteor shower. Maybe the earth and the solar system for that matter might enter into a dust/debris cloud at the time of this happening or maybe it will be debris returning to the earth from a comet impact on earth?

But you don't see fewer stars after a meteor shower like you do fruit in a tree after it falls to the ground. I think we have to assume the author of the book knows what stars are like and that He knows what He is talking about.

What is He saying to us?

I have a suspicion that the correct understanding of the passage requires knowledge of more dimensions than we generally think of.

[alecia]

Um.. yeah stars ARE what science tells us they are. Otherwise, you would never see ANY stars, except for the sun. We have seen planets in telescopes, just regular old telescopes, and we know they are very massive spheres, but to the naked eye they appear only as stars... yet they are relatively close by. Now think of those tiny points of light we call stars, which are light years away. They would have to be -at least- as large as our largest planet in our solar system.. I think its Jupiter.. in order to even be seen at all. Many of them are a great deal bigger, and are so far away that the star has died out before the light even reaches us!

And youre right, if the stars came to earth, they would have had to start moving probably millions of years ago.. maybe thousands IF they move at the speed of light. And yes, the universe is expanding, not collapsing.

So.. what is this verse about? I have no idea.. you tell me.. lol

And something else that came to me.. if an errant star even came -near- our solar system, the added gravity would pull planets out of thier orbit, the solar system would fall apart, and the invading star and the sun would attract eachother and collide which would probably throw the rest of our galaxy out of whack completely.

Stars have massive gravity which is why they are the center of solar systems.. they keep the planets from pulling into eachother and blowing up.

Edited August 17, 2004 by alecia

[stevehut]

Ebed,

I'm a little confused here. Since you're posting in a Christian forum, I suppose you have in mind some type of religions implications in this. Is this the case?

[nebula]

We have seen planets in telescopes, just regular old telescopes, and we know they are very massive spheres, but to the naked eye they appear only as stars... yet they are relatively close by.

Yup - I've seen both Mars and Jupiter through telescopes - and they look just like the pictures show.

They were really, really cool!