We must encourage the poor to work.

[oldzimm]

When someone enters the military, an all volunteer force, they do so knowing that if they serve for a certain amount of time, they will receive retirement. Unless we are going to return to having a draft, the government has to offer benefits and a reasonable salary to get people to sign up for military service.

But they're still receiving a government check for doing nothing, much like those on welfare. Shouldn't they have to work for that check just as you believe welfare recipiants should? Or are there 2 standards for who should and who shouldn't work for that government check?

People on welfare aren't the only ones receiving money for doing nothing.

Where is the line drawn?

Lets see Military pension vs welfare checks......................... oh yeah! there is a big difference. (and do you really want to go there)

[Guest man]

Lets see Military pension vs welfare checks......................... oh yeah! there is a big difference. (and do you really want to go there)

Sure, why not. You first.

[oldzimm]

Lets see Military pension vs welfare checks......................... oh yeah! there is a big difference. (and do you really want to go there)

Sure, why not. You first.

For Welfare checks recipients that truly can't fend for themselves such as handicap, illness or anything out of their control, I don't have a problem with them receiving assistance. (I thought I made that clear in other post)

Where I have a problem is when somebody is fully capable of working but lacks the will to work, draws a welfare check. Then these same people will spend that money we paid in in taxes on drugs, booze and gambling. If you think that don't happen, you better get out and see the real world, your not in Kansas anymore.

Now these welfare frauds didn't do a thing to deserve that welfare check, you tell me what they done to deserve that check?

What about Military pensions? How can you even say that Military personnel did not do anything to deserve their pension and still call yourself an American? Did not these people stand up with intestinal fortitude to defend our freedoms when others couldn't? Did not these same people put it all on the line to defend our freedoms when others wouldn't? Did not these brave men and women leave love ones behind to defend our freedoms? Did not some of these people die for our freedoms because they love this country, when there are those who wouldn't join the Military because they are afraid of getting even a paper cut? Then you have the gall to say they don't deserve a pension and to categorize them with those that freeload off welfare, sir that is an insult.

Man it is time for you to start ponying up, you are way behind the eight ball as far as answering questions.

[MorningGlory]

For Welfare checks recipients that truly can't fend for themselves such as handicap, illness or anything out of their control, I don't have a problem with them receiving assistance. (I thought I made that clear in other post)

Where I have a problem is when somebody is fully capable of working but lacks the will to work, draws a welfare check. Then these same people will spend that money we paid in in taxes on drugs, booze and gambling. If you think that don't happen, you better get out and see the real world, your not in Kansas anymore.

Now these welfare frauds didn't do a thing to deserve that welfare check, you tell me what they done to deserve that check?

What about Military pensions? How can you even say that Military personnel did not do anything to deserve their pension and still call yourself an American? Did not these people stand up with intestinal fortitude to defend our freedoms when others couldn't? Did not these same people put it all on the line to defend our freedoms when others wouldn't? Did not these brave men and women leave love ones behind to defend our freedoms? Did not some of these people die for our freedoms because they love this country, when there are those who wouldn't join the Military because they are afraid of getting even a paper cut? Then you have the gall to say they don't deserve a pension and to categorize them with those that freeload off welfare, sir that is an insult.

Man it is time for you to start ponying up, you are way behind the eight ball as far as answering questions.

Well said, O.Z. I totally agree, there is no correlation between military pensions and welfare cheats.

[Guest man]

Lets see Military pension vs welfare checks......................... oh yeah! there is a big difference. (and do you really want to go there)

Sure, why not. You first.

For Welfare checks recipients that truly can't fend for themselves such as handicap, illness or anything out of their control, I don't have a problem with them receiving assistance. (I thought I made that clear in other post)

Where I have a problem is when somebody is fully capable of working but lacks the will to work, draws a welfare check. Then these same people will spend that money we paid in in taxes on drugs, booze and gambling. If you think that don't happen, you better get out and see the real world, your not in Kansas anymore.

Now these welfare frauds didn't do a thing to deserve that welfare check, you tell me what they done to deserve that check?

What you say about the drugs, booze, and gambling is true to a certain extent, but not all people do that. Did you know that many of those freeloaders are veterans? People that put their life on the line for this country and your freedom to call them freeloaders.

The Lord instructs us to pay our taxes, observe the laws of the government, be content with what we have and not to complain. Well did Paul say in his letter to Timothy, "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". You're complaining about your tax money going to welfare recipients. What do you care as long as your upholding the Word of God? The Word tells us to feed and clothe the poor. That's what welfare does but you complain.

If the church did what it was supposed to do, there would be no need for welfare. There would be no need for disability and social security payments. Everyone would have a bed to sleep in at night and a meal to wake up to. The government would not have to do our job for us.

You should be gratefull for what you have, for by the grace of God you have it. The Lord brings rain on the just and the unjust. That's a fact of life. You need to get used to that. Stop complaining about what the government does with your taxes. Once they take it, it's not yours anymore. Render onto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and onto God, that which is God's.

What about Military pensions? How can you even say that Military personnel did not do anything to deserve their pension and still call yourself an American? Did not these people stand up with intestinal fortitude to defend our freedoms when others couldn't? Did not these same people put it all on the line to defend our freedoms when others wouldn't? Did not these brave men and women leave love ones behind to defend our freedoms? Did not some of these people die for our freedoms because they love this country, when there are those who wouldn't join the Military because they are afraid of getting even a paper cut? Then you have the gall to say they don't deserve a pension and to categorize them with those that freeload off welfare, sir that is an insult.

I don't have a problem with veterans receiving retirement payments, but if you're gonna be fair, you have to include them. Free money, remember? You can be insulted all you want, I did my time in the military. No it wasn't 20 years but it close to half that.

A large number of the homeless population are veterans. A large number of welfare recipients are veterans. People you look down upon because they're living off of your tax dollars. These people are just as much an american as you are and you want to take away the little that they have. These people served their country and what do they get in return? A welfare check or maybe a spot in the soup line. Many of them have lost their homes, their families, everything, and you complain because the government wants to give them a welfare check.....your tax dollars.

Man it is time for you to start ponying up, you are way behind the eight ball as far as answering questions.

I have a sickness that would allow me to receive disability payments, but I choose not too. I'm still able to work, so I do. I have maybe a year left in this world, but I'm gonna keep getting up at 3am and going to work until I can't. My paycheck for 40 hours come to $142.30. That's alittle over 550 dollars a month that I live on. I pay my taxes and I'm sure that a part of those taxes goes to welfare, but I don't care. I'm content with what I have. I don't look at those taxes I pay as belonging to me.....it's the governments money, they can do whatever they want with it.

The love of money.......that's all this is about....so sad.

[Smalcald]

I think we should understand the welfare system before we speak about it.

What is offered to people are food stamps and temporary aid for needy families (TANF). You can't get cash assistance if you are an able bodied person with no dependent children. If you are a single mom with children yes you can get some cash assistance, usually less than $500 per month depending on the state and you can get food stamps for a couple of hundred. I work in social services; the biggest abuse that I see are people who are are on "disability". I used to think that disability meant blind, deaf dumb or in a wheel chair. Not so, today you can get it for a massive variety of ailments from back pain, to depression. These people get a check for their entire life; a permanent annuity, it ruins them. In addition today we have unemployment for two years, what does that do to the work ethic?

I think we should give people help with food so I have no problem with food stamps or even some cash assistance for some families. However the key is work, work is about self respect about life itself and we have to respect ALL work. I do see a major problem in our society in that we denigrate some work. As Christians we must support all work that is legal and honest it is all honorable in the eyes of the Lord. We live in a very materialistic society which does not respect all work. This is the reason that even though we have high unemployment we still must bring in some immigrant labor both legal and illegal to do the minimum wage jobs.

[Smalcald]

Lets see Military pension vs welfare checks......................... oh yeah! there is a big difference. (and do you really want to go there)

Sure, why not. You first.

For Welfare checks recipients that truly can't fend for themselves such as handicap, illness or anything out of their control, I don't have a problem with them receiving assistance. (I thought I made that clear in other post)

Where I have a problem is when somebody is fully capable of working but lacks the will to work, draws a welfare check. Then these same people will spend that money we paid in in taxes on drugs, booze and gambling. If you think that don't happen, you better get out and see the real world, your not in Kansas anymore.

Now these welfare frauds didn't do a thing to deserve that welfare check, you tell me what they done to deserve that check?

What you say about the drugs, booze, and gambling is true to a certain extent, but not all people do that. Did you know that many of those freeloaders are veterans? People that put their life on the line for this country and your freedom to call them freeloaders.

The Lord instructs us to pay our taxes, observe the laws of the government, be content with what we have and not to complain. Well did Paul say in his letter to Timothy, "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". You're complaining about your tax money going to welfare recipients. What do you care as long as your upholding the Word of God? The Word tells us to feed and clothe the poor. That's what welfare does but you complain.

If the church did what it was supposed to do, there would be no need for welfare. There would be no need for disability and social security payments. Everyone would have a bed to sleep in at night and a meal to wake up to. The government would not have to do our job for us.

You should be gratefull for what you have, for by the grace of God you have it. The Lord brings rain on the just and the unjust. That's a fact of life. You need to get used to that. Stop complaining about what the government does with your taxes. Once they take it, it's not yours anymore. Render onto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and onto God, that which is God's.

What about Military pensions? How can you even say that Military personnel did not do anything to deserve their pension and still call yourself an American? Did not these people stand up with intestinal fortitude to defend our freedoms when others couldn't? Did not these same people put it all on the line to defend our freedoms when others wouldn't? Did not these brave men and women leave love ones behind to defend our freedoms? Did not some of these people die for our freedoms because they love this country, when there are those who wouldn't join the Military because they are afraid of getting even a paper cut? Then you have the gall to say they don't deserve a pension and to categorize them with those that freeload off welfare, sir that is an insult.

I don't have a problem with veterans receiving retirement payments, but if you're gonna be fair, you have to include them. Free money, remember? You can be insulted all you want, I did my time in the military. No it wasn't 20 years but it close to half that.

A large number of the homeless population are veterans. A large number of welfare recipients are veterans. People you look down upon because they're living off of your tax dollars. These people are just as much an american as you are and you want to take away the little that they have. These people served their country and what do they get in return? A welfare check or maybe a spot in the soup line. Many of them have lost their homes, their families, everything, and you complain because the government wants to give them a welfare check.....your tax dollars.

Man it is time for you to start ponying up, you are way behind the eight ball as far as answering questions.

I have a sickness that would allow me to receive disability payments, but I choose not too. I'm still able to work, so I do. I have maybe a year left in this world, but I'm gonna keep getting up at 3am and going to work until I can't. My paycheck for 40 hours come to $142.30. That's alittle over 550 dollars a month that I live on. I pay my taxes and I'm sure that a part of those taxes goes to welfare, but I don't care. I'm content with what I have. I don't look at those taxes I pay as belonging to me.....it's the governments money, they can do whatever they want with it.

The love of money.......that's all this is about....so sad.

Good points. Also you are a great example of living and work; how the work that you do even though it does not pay much is valued by the Lord in my humble opinion.

[oldzimm]

Lets see Military pension vs welfare checks......................... oh yeah! there is a big difference. (and do you really want to go there)

Sure, why not. You first.

For Welfare checks recipients that truly can't fend for themselves such as handicap, illness or anything out of their control, I don't have a problem with them receiving assistance. (I thought I made that clear in other post)

Where I have a problem is when somebody is fully capable of working but lacks the will to work, draws a welfare check. Then these same people will spend that money we paid in in taxes on drugs, booze and gambling. If you think that don't happen, you better get out and see the real world, your not in Kansas anymore.

Now these welfare frauds didn't do a thing to deserve that welfare check, you tell me what they done to deserve that check?

What you say about the drugs, booze, and gambling is true to a certain extent, but not all people do that. Did you know that many of those freeloaders are veterans? People that put their life on the line for this country and your freedom to call them freeloaders.

The Lord instructs us to pay our taxes, observe the laws of the government, be content with what we have and not to complain. Well did Paul say in his letter to Timothy, "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". You're complaining about your tax money going to welfare recipients. What do you care as long as your upholding the Word of God? The Word tells us to feed and clothe the poor. That's what welfare does but you complain.

If the church did what it was supposed to do, there would be no need for welfare. There would be no need for disability and social security payments. Everyone would have a bed to sleep in at night and a meal to wake up to. The government would not have to do our job for us.

You should be gratefull for what you have, for by the grace of God you have it. The Lord brings rain on the just and the unjust. That's a fact of life. You need to get used to that. Stop complaining about what the government does with your taxes. Once they take it, it's not yours anymore. Render onto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and onto God, that which is God's.

What about Military pensions? How can you even say that Military personnel did not do anything to deserve their pension and still call yourself an American? Did not these people stand up with intestinal fortitude to defend our freedoms when others couldn't? Did not these same people put it all on the line to defend our freedoms when others wouldn't? Did not these brave men and women leave love ones behind to defend our freedoms? Did not some of these people die for our freedoms because they love this country, when there are those who wouldn't join the Military because they are afraid of getting even a paper cut? Then you have the gall to say they don't deserve a pension and to categorize them with those that freeload off welfare, sir that is an insult.

I don't have a problem with veterans receiving retirement payments, but if you're gonna be fair, you have to include them. Free money, remember? You can be insulted all you want, I did my time in the military. No it wasn't 20 years but it close to half that.

A large number of the homeless population are veterans. A large number of welfare recipients are veterans. People you look down upon because they're living off of your tax dollars. These people are just as much an american as you are and you want to take away the little that they have. These people served their country and what do they get in return? A welfare check or maybe a spot in the soup line. Many of them have lost their homes, their families, everything, and you complain because the government wants to give them a welfare check.....your tax dollars.

Man it is time for you to start ponying up, you are way behind the eight ball as far as answering questions.

I have a sickness that would allow me to receive disability payments, but I choose not too. I'm still able to work, so I do. I have maybe a year left in this world, but I'm gonna keep getting up at 3am and going to work until I can't. My paycheck for 40 hours come to $142.30. That's alittle over 550 dollars a month that I live on. I pay my taxes and I'm sure that a part of those taxes goes to welfare, but I don't care. I'm content with what I have. I don't look at those taxes I pay as belonging to me.....it's the governments money, they can do whatever they want with it.

The love of money.......that's all this is about....so sad.

The love of money has nothing to do with the input of this topic. If you go back to my first post when I started this thread, it was about Leviticus 19: 9,10 when God said (not Oldzimm) we are to let the poor work to pick the gleamings out of the fields. Now think about it, the verses make sense. Those two verses weren't God telling us to be mean to the poor, it was God telling us to give the poor some dignity. There is a sense of dignity when a man can work to earn his daily bread and feed his family. Dignity is in short supply these days when a healthy, fully capable person opts for a welfare check over a minimum wage job or higher.

Now for the umteenth time I'm going to repeat myself again. I don't have a problem with welfare going to those who need it because of circumstances that are out of their control. Feed them, cloth them, shelter them, that is what the welfare programs are for. The welfare programs weren't meant to be for those that have the ability to make it on their own, but refuse to do so.

Man with your illness, I don't see why you don't get disability payments since you qualify (that is what the program is for). Something else I don't understand, if you are paid $142.30 for 40 hours then either you are self employed or somebody is taking advantage of you because that is not minimum wage.

As for the my brothers that are homeless Veterans, we do have programs for them through Veterans organizations. I think the problem may be they are too proud to seek help. Some of the problems that our veterans are having (and I'm not afraid to point a finger here) is because of the government. The government left them go too soon after they got back from the war, most should of been kept longer for Medical evaluations. When I came back from the war, in four days I was walking the streets of my hometown. Yep in just four days I went from a place where it was hot, bullets flying, explosion and then off to the tranquility of my hometown. It was like the government saying "Good job, we don't need you anymore, get out of here". I started drinking heavy and through the grace of God he showed me the path I was heading down and I changed course.

[Guest man]

The love of money has nothing to do with the input of this topic.

It has everything to do with this topic. Step out of your box and go back and read this thread from beginning to end.

If you go back to my first post when I started this thread, it was about Leviticus 19: 9,10 when God said (not Oldzimm) we are to let the poor work to pick the gleamings out of the fields. Now think about it, the verses make sense. Those two verses weren't God telling us to be mean to the poor, it was God telling us to give the poor some dignity. There is a sense of dignity when a man can work to earn his daily bread and feed his family. Dignity is in short supply these days when a healthy, fully capable person opts for a welfare check over a minimum wage job or higher.

No, it's not about giving people dignity. Where's the dignity in living off the scraps of the wealthy?

Those verses are God telling the wealthy that they don't need it all. They have more than enough to sustain them. Don't completely clear your fields, leave some for the people who don't have anything.

It's not about dignity. It's about feeding the poor.

I don't see why you don't get disability payments since you qualify

Because I'm able to work................dignity....................remember?

[mizzdy]

the government is a giant beast and it isn't going away anytime fast. There is zero reason why we shouldn't use it to the best of our ability when it is beneficial. If this means that giving to a particular program helps the poor and sick better than I could do on my own, then I will stand behind it.

If I had the power, I would gradually dismantle all of the things socialists have done over the years until we were living in a society that looked more like America in the 1920s than today. I wouldn't end all welfare programs overnight, because people are too dependent on them, but would gradually move away from them by working to help lift those in poverty out of their condition. I think we are handling things wrong. The government is giving out checks for no work, and when that is not enough, their solution is to continue spending more.

1920's huh? Take a look around .... Banks completely out of control and as corrupt as they were prior to being bailed out... the treasury flooding the markets with too much money; the stock market fluctuating wildly for months - food kitchens feeding people who have never asked for help; more foreclosures in the the country than ever in history (including the Great Depression)... job lines for unemployment or to apply for a job. "Camp Grounds" with thousands of homeless families in some of the largest cities in our country; Recently, I saw 579 applications for an entry level position in finance... the college applicants looked just like the people with less education. The housing market in our area is showing some promise - in part that is due to the low home sales prices and foreclosures... At this point .... it looks uncomfortably like the 1920's ... just without the cute clothes.

My grandmother was born in 1899 my grandfather in 1896, my dads parents were much older than my mothers but do not know their birth years, my dad was born in 1927 and mother in 1930, growing up I had several relatives who exclaimed the ruination of this country by Wilson and FDR. When the new deal came along it caused families for the first time to be separated by states since according to my grandfather and uncle the gov. men told them that there was no work locally yet after they left for work a state away others from the state they went to came to do work in their township. Before the new deal of socialism my grandparents and parents were able to get enough sharecropping work, mining work or even cut others hair to make enough to support the family, none were wealthy and things were scarce for sure but they were all together. Not only did families work together to help one another but the community that surrounded them worked to improve each other, something we don't see today. The older men taught the younger how to plant and harvest, each generation taught the other to take care of themselves, today we don't see things like this. Although reading Fez's accounts of community I would have to say thats exactly how my parents handled living. If the poor are going to be encouraged to work then they need to be taught self reliance, not a handout and frankly the gov. needs to get out of the way and let things right themselves if thats even possible any longer. We are a broken society and its not going to get any better until Yeshua returns and all we can do is help one another as He calls us to do.