PERSECUTION in America

[Matthitjah]

Actually,

She asked for the client to be shifted to another Counselor because she felt due to her Religious Convictions that she could not counsel the person without telling that their lifestyle was sinful and perverted. It was after this that she was ejected from the program unless she under re-programming.

That's her testimony from Court documents. She never refused.

Meanwhile, here is what the Judge has widely been reported to have ruled;

“Plaintiff was not required to change her views or religious beliefs; she was required to set them aside in the counselor-client relationship — a neutral, generally applicable expectation of all counselors-to-be under the ACA (American Counseling Association) standard,”

From here;

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20100727/NEWS01/307270034/1190/eatonrapids

By the way, the Birch say's to tell Axx, "Hi !" He likes you even though you are frequently wrong.

Peace,

Dave

[Axxman]

Actually,

She asked for the client to be shifted to another Counselor because she felt due to her Religious Convictions that she could not counsel the person without telling that their lifestyle was sinful and perverted. It was after this that she was ejected from the program unless she under re-programming.

That's her testimony from Court documents. She never refused.

Meanwhile, here is what the Judge has widely been reported to have ruled;

[Guest]

....You really should read the court documents. The Lansing State Journal doesn't quite cut it. The above quote was part of a 48 page document in which the judge gave a detailed explanation...unlike the "ripped-from-context for shock value" clip the article provided. Julea Ward couldn't even point to ONE instance in court where she was told to change her beliefs. In fact, it was made very clear to her that she did not have to endorse or advocate homosexuality in order to do her job. She got in trouble because she used her biases to discriminate against a person. She refused to help a depressed person because she didn't like a particular flaw (i.e. sin) that she didn't want to deal with...

OK

U.S. District Judge George Steeh disagreed with her.

"Plaintiff was not required to change her views or religious beliefs; she was required to set them aside in the counselor-client relationship a neutral, generally applicable expectation of all counselors-to-be under the ACA (American Counseling Association) standard," Steeh concluded.

Is It OK

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 8:38

The Law Of The Land

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

And The Supreme Law Book Which Will Make It's Rulings Over All The Judges Of The World

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

So Whatever Is A Wretched Sinner To Do

What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me?

I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. Psalms 116:12-13

Believe And Be Blessed

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

Beloved

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Love, Joe

[Axxman]

U.S. District Judge George Steeh disagreed with her.

"Plaintiff was not required to change her views or religious beliefs; she was required to set them aside in the counselor-client relationship a neutral, generally applicable expectation of all counselors-to-be under the ACA (American Counseling Association) standard," Steeh concluded.

Is It OK

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 8:38

The Law Of The Land

[url=http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html]Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Okay Joe...but no one, especially congress, was asking her to be ashamed, neither were they trying to make a law establishing religion...or prohibiting her free speech. She exercised her free speech all the way through this class and received straight A's. All they wanted her to do was to see clients and be willing to counsel them no matter what her own biases are. Shouldn't that be expected of a counselor?

[Axxman]

I was thinking about this issue this morning. It dawned on me that maybe the reason none of you care to read the court documents is because what actually happened wouldn't matter. Maybe our disagreement isn't in the facts of what happened.

Maybe we are not seeing eye to eye on this because we are not agreeing on what being a counselor actual is. And, maybe we all want different things from counseling. If you think counselors are there to actually solve all your problems and tell you what to do...then I guess I could see why the counselors opinions and biases are very important. I'm not certain that is the role of a counselor (Christian or secular). I can assure you that after reading the entire ACA Code of Ethics that is not how they view counseling.

[nebula]

Axx - Imagine the woman counseling the client. By her religious and personal conviction the client's homosexuality is either a part of or an extension of the problem.

What would have happened had she counseled the client with the desire to set the person free from the homosexuality?

Do you not see the problem(s) that could have created?

[Guest]

....I was thinking about this issue this morning. It dawned on me that maybe the reason none of you care to read the court documents is because what actually happened wouldn't matter. Maybe our disagreement isn't in the facts of what happened.

Maybe we are not seeing eye to eye on this because we are not agreeing on what being a counselor actual is. And, maybe we all want different things from counseling. If you think counselors are there to actually solve all your problems and tell you what to do...then I guess I could see why the counselors opinions and biases are very important. I'm not certain that is the role of a counselor (Christian or secular). I can assure you that after reading the entire ACA Code of Ethics that is not how they view counseling....

Truly Dear Brother The Core Issue Is

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14

Jesus The Christ And His Holy Word The Bible

For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Acts 28:27

And Because She Was Set Up But She Would Not Sin

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12

She Was Stripped Of Her Profession And Of Her Academic Achievements

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10

What's Seven Years Of Her Life When She Has Jesus

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26

[Axxman]

Axx - Imagine the woman counseling the client. By her religious and personal conviction the client's homosexuality is either a part of or an extension of the problem.

What would have happened had she counseled the client with the desire to set the person free from the homosexuality?

Do you not see the problem(s) that could have created?

So, you would rather her not counsel the client and thereby possibly expose a situation to free this person from their sinful lifestyle? How could that have possibly created a worst situation than the one she is in?

Homosexuality is a sin. Lots of people live in sin. Yet, she has a particular bias against ONE sin and refuses to counsel people who are affected by it. What kind of counselor is that??

Counseling is not about fulfilling the desires, or values, of the counselor in the clients life. Thats just not what counseling is.

[Axxman]

And Because She Was Set Up But She Would Not Sin

How was she set up? Do you really believe she was naive enough to think that she would be a counselor at a secular university and never have to deal with issues like homosexuality? Au contraire..this was an issue that was discussed often in her classes. This fact was pointed out in court.

Truly Dear Brother The Core Issue Is

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14

So you agree with me then? She had no business trying to get a degree at a secular university. This woman entered into a financial agreement with a worldly entity, to try and gain secular credentials, in order to get something that is freely given by God through his Holy Spirit. Talk about unequally yoked.

[Guest]

....So you agree with me then? She had no business trying to get a degree at a secular university.....

I Agree The World Now Thinks She Has No Business Getting A Degree, Period

I Do Not Agree

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:13

Where The Law Is Broken ( or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ) By Taxpayer Funded Schools And A National Court

Lawlessness Becomes The Business Of Academia, Professional And Government Alike

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1 Timothy 1:9

Neither Your Opinion Nor My Opinion Nor The Clear Words Of The Constitution

Will Be Allowed To Interfere With This Growing Prohibition Of Practicing Believers

And The Word Of God From Public Or Professional Expression In Latter-Day America

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Isaiah 29:11-12

As You Know Brother Most Godless Governments Will Eventually Take The Children Away From Their Believing Parents

To Ensure These Young Minds And Souls Are Educated In Anti-Christ Covenants And Doctrines

Where Only The Truth Can Change The Enslavement Of The Little Ones

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:36

Think This Can't Happen In A Land Of Atheistic Professional And Political Associations?

These things I command you, that ye love one another.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. John 15:17-21

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1

Love, Your Brother Joe