Burn a Qu'ran Day...

[Matthitjah]

No, he's a Christian Universalist - which does not have the concept of, "No man comes to the Father except through me," nor "Thou shall have no other gods before me."

Quite the contrary. Christian unversalists accept that there is only one God, although some accept Jesus as the only way, others do not.

Which is what I said.

I am of the type that accepts Jesus as the only way to salvation.

How is this not contradictory to what you stated before?

I don't buy into collective salvation or damnation for any religion. Islam, like any other religion, can be used for both good and evil. I think when a Muslim does something good out of their own heart God sees it and acknowledges it, just like any other person, no matter what their particular beliefs are. When a Muslim, or anyone else, does something evil God too sees it and acts accordingly.

I do not understand.

Because he believes that while Jesus is the only way that the work of Christ, accepted or not, covers all sin .

However, It is contradictory to state that God counts Righteous works towards Salvation and then to state that the work of Christ is Universally applied.

Which one is it? Your works or the work of Christ Universally applied?

peace,

dave

[~candice~]

One of the reasons given to be against the Qu'ran is that it is a book whose adherents worship a different God than the God of Christians. Yet christians find the Talmud more acceptable because it's adherents worship the same God that Christians do. The thing is, there are Jews who feel that the moslems worship the same God as them and Christians do not.

This shows that much work is needed to be done by our faith. Instead of burning anyones holy books, we need to open dialogue so that we can all come to the knowledge of the truth.

Wow! That's incredible!

[nebula]

... I would never suggest doing that, but if they do something to us, I am all in favor of giving them back what they dish out.

What about the Scriptures: "Vengeance is Mine, saith the Lord," and "Love your enemies," and the like?

Are Muslims the exception to the rule?

I think war is the exception. The government needs to retailiate in a way where they will know we are serious. We could execute them and embalm them with pork so they will fear going to hell rather than meeting alah in peace. We could saw off their heads while cursing their gods and send them a copy of the tape. We could instill fear in them. It is not as much about vengeance as making the enemy think twice before messing with us.

OK, I'm seeing a conflict here - are you speaking of what Christians should do in the name of Christ? Or are you speaking of what the government should do to the Taliban?

[nebula]

... Also, the Talmud is such a large group of writings it is difficult to just pull out a quote unless you have studied it for years (much like the Bible).

It's not that hard to pull up quotes from the Bible.

I am not understanding why you can't reference the Talmud stating, "God has no son," as you claimed?

Really, I'm not calling you a liar! I would just like to see the quote for myself.

And I don't have the 10 or whatever hours it would take to find this one quote.

But ask yourself...Why would Jewish writings not be Anti Christian? They do not accept Christ as the Messiah, throughout their history they have been persecuted by people who call themselves Christians. Even the holocaust was brought about by a Christian nation.

Why are you asking me to believe hearsay rather than to ask for verification? When roles are reversed, do you not hound me for exact quotes?

[nebula]

The thing is, there are Jews who feel that the moslems worship the same God as them and Christians do not.

A lot of secular Jews believe a lot of weird things, I've discovered.

I can't imagine how a practicing Jew could believe Muslims worship their God when the Koran states that it was Ishmael who was the child of promise and the one Abraham sacrificed on the altar.

This shows that much work is needed to be done by our faith. Instead of burning anyones holy books, we need to open dialogue so that we can all come to the knowledge of the truth.

Well, I do agree wit this.

[Guest]

D-9,

What do you believe the Lord's opinion of Islam is?

.... I don't buy into collective salvation or damnation for any religion. Islam, like any other religion, can be used for both good and evil. I think when a Muslim does something good out of their own heart God sees it and acknowledges it, just like any other person, no matter what their particular beliefs are. When a Muslim, or anyone else, does something evil God too sees it and acts accordingly. I do not know what God thinks of Islam, I just know that the call of God is a call to love, and I don't know how burning a holy book and getting people angry and possibly violent that will do nothing but build more walls between people is a way to love....

Good?

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Mark 10:17-18

Only God Is Without Sin

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 5:15

And Only His Blood

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

Saves

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

All Other Ways

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. John 10:7-11

Will Damn A Fellow

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

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Believe And Live

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

Or Not

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Dear Ones, This Plague Of Lawlessness Is World-Wide And Not Just Within The USA

As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. Daniel 9:13-14

Yet He Has His Faithful

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Romans 11:24

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It Is Still

He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. Luke 11:23

A Tale Of Two Kingdoms

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. John 18:36

And I Too Am Tempted To Wrath Rather That To Love

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:43-45

By The World's Total Blindness To Sin

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8:36

And It's Hatred Of Freedom

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:34-36

In Christ

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32

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The Most Bottom-Line Commentary I Ever Did Read On Mankind's Hatred Of The Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Is Found In The Second Psalm. Try Reading Here First And You May Find The Blues Fleeing In Screaming Terror

Before The Glorious Light Of God's Word

And His Sense Of Humor

Why do the nations gather together?

Why do their people devise useless plots?

Kings take their stands.

Rulers make plans together against the LORD and against his Messiah by saying,

"Let's break apart their chains and shake off their ropes."

The one enthroned in heaven laughs.

The Lord makes fun of them.

Then he speaks to them in his anger.

In his burning anger he terrifies them by saying,

"I have installed my own king on Zion, my holy mountain."

I will announce the LORD's decree.

He said to me:

"You are my Son.

Today I have become your Father.

Ask me, and I will give you the nations as your inheritance and the ends of the earth as your own possession.

You will break them with an iron scepter.

You will smash them to pieces like pottery."

Now, you kings, act wisely.

Be warned, you rulers of the earth!

Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Kiss the Son, or he will become angry and you will die on your way because his anger will burst into flames.

Blessed is everyone who takes refuge in him. Psalms 2 (GOD'S WORD ® Translation)

Jesus Is LORD

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Dear Family I Pray This Is Of Some Comfort And Encouragement To You In These Evil Times

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I think it would be a grave mistake to believe that everyone who doesn't accept Christianity is going to Hell.

That's wonderful but that's not what the Bible say's. Neither is it what Jesus said. Were not talking about accepting Christianity were talking about accepting Jesus Christ.

Rather God sees that you are trying (or not trying) to do what is right and will take all of it into consideration when the day of judgment comes, and what all God does to purify you so that you can one day enjoy Heaven.

So if I work really hard at trying to be Righteous God will give me a pass? Who's going to purge me of my sins? I know your answer will be that Jesus will, but I never asked and I never repented.

How do you make that work with this;

Mt

[Guest shiloh357]

Not according to Nebula's criteria. She said "The Koran says that "God has no son." So how can you say they worship the same God as us?"

The Talmud says that God has no son, so by the above criteria the Jews do not believe in the same God as Christians.

Would you be able to pull up the exact quote, and where in the Talmud it says that?

Thanks

Neb, come on. You know that Jews deny that Christ is the son of God.

The point is, we would not burn the Talmud. Neither should we hold book burnings for the Qu'ran.

Don't dodge the question KatyAnn. Can you demonstrate that the Talmud denies that God has a son? Just produce the text for review.

I am not going to get drawn into an argument with you. You know full well that by saying that the Jews believe God has no son I was talking about this in the context of Christ being the son of God. I was not talking abouts humans who can also be called sons of God.

It's a given that Jews do not accept Christ as the Messiah so the only reason you can possible be persuing this is to argue.

I know you love to argue and will try to start one with my reply. Go to it. My husband just got home so I have better things to do than argue over something we all know. It is obvious to anyone who cares enough to read this what I mean.

I am not trying to argue with you. I am testing your claim as fact. You said that the Talmud claimed that God has no son. That is not the same as acknowledging that Jews do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. You have tried to make the Talmud morally equivalent with the Qu'ran and I am challenging the accuracy of your claim.

You can't provide the quote, nor the source of your claim other than to dodge any responsibility for supporting your claim. I have noticed that such claims ordinarily come from white-supremist and radical Islamic sites, and since I have caught you copying the posting from radical Palestinian sites before to support your anti-Israel sentiments, I can understand why you would not want make your source public. It's just more of the same.

[Guest shiloh357]

Should the Jewish Talmud also be burned? It also denies that Christ is the Messiah. Doesn't that mean that the Talmud is also promoting a false religion? By reasoning on this thread by a couple of people, burning literature used by a false religion is perfectly acceptable because they are worshiping a false God. How far do you want to carry this scenario?

If someone wants to burn the Talmud, I suppose they will do so with or without our permission? There is a difference in the Talmud and the Qu'ran. The Talmud is based on worship of Jehovah, but based on the Old Testament. The Qu'ran is based on the worship of a false god named Alah. The Talmud isn't teaching people to kill those of other religions they don't agree with. We are not being attacked by Jewish extremists going about performing suicide bombings. I would not burn the Talmud because there is some value in it, with regard to understanding Jewish customs, and giving insight into the law of Moses. I would destroy the Qu'ran because it is a book that insights our enemies to attack us, and has no redeeming value.

Have you studied the Talmud? Do you really think the Talmud does not promote killing others of differing religions? Do you know what the Talmud says about Christians? From your above post I would say the answer to the above questions is No.

This is the comment I was refering to KatyAnn. You suggested that the Talmud promotes the killing of others of differing religions. I was looking for you to back that up. If that was just a question, and you don't know if it does, that is fine, but it appeared you were saying it does.

The Talmud says a lot of things that Christians would find quite uncomfortable. If you really care to know what it says you can find out for yourself.

Are you going to request that the person who made post #89 back up his claims that the Talmud promotes the beheading of Christians, or is all this attention reserved for me personally?

Yeah and there are conspiracy theorists and revisionists who claim that the Talmud says that all Gentiles are nonhuman. I have discovered that most of the claims about what the Talmud says are made up. I have a copy of the Talmud and never found such claims to have any credibilty.

[Guest shiloh357]

But ask yourself...Why would Jewish writings not be Anti Christian? They do not accept Christ as the Messiah, throughout their history they have been persecuted by people who call themselves Christians. Even the holocaust was brought about by a Christian nation.

Much of the Talmud already existed by the time Jesus was born. His teachings echo the Talmud/Mishna. The Talmud predates Christianity by some 500 years.

I have noticed that when claims are made in the Talmud about Genitles, revisionists simply insert the word "Christian" when the Talmud was talking about all nonJews, not Christians. The word "Akum" in Hebrew is often misrepresented by revisionists to refer to "Christians" when it is a reference to anyone who is not a Jew. Secondly, most of the claims are fictional. The Talmud is accused of claiming in Tractate Kallah 1b and in 18b that Jesus was a "bastard son born of prostitute." The claim does not exist in the Talmud and the reference numbers are also completely made up. There is no such thing as "Kallah 1b, 18b.

Furthermore, there are dialogues in the Talmud that occur between scholars and a good example is in tractate Sanhedrin, 59a. There is a dialog between two Rabbis, and the first Rabbit does advocate death for a Gentile who studies the Torah. The second Rabbi condemns and refutes hs colleagues statment by pointing out that the Gentile who studies the Torah raises himself up to the status of a High Priest. So while revisionists and conspiracy theorists might single out the first Rabbi's condemnation of Genitile to prove something malicious about the Talmud, it is easy to see that such claims have no basis in reality when examined in context.

So context is imporant. There are statements in the Talmud, that when they are singled out and are not read properly are misunderstood. The Talmud is not "Anti-Christian." The Talmud is the codification of Jewish Law and observance.

So these "anti-Christian" claims about the Talmud cannot really be trusted. They made by people who either have an axe to grind with the Jews, or they are picked up and spread by those who really have not done the necessary research before posting such nonsense on boards like this one.