Nearness of the Rapture

[wyguy]

Though I hope this thread does not turn into yet another fight over whether there will be a rapture or not, I do believe there will be a pre-tribulation rapture. And I also believe it will be in my lifetime. I say, the sooner the better. I'm sick of living in this sack of sin I call a body.

[lekh l'kha]

Good work, Bible2 :

Da Servant said:

My wife opened up the Bible on Saturday morning. God guided her hand to Nehemiah 8:16-9:3. It speaks of the Feast of Tabernacles and the reading of the law. I think God is communicating the very nearness of the Rapture.

Wouldn't the Feast of Tabernacles be more a type of the coming Millennium (Zechariah 14:16) than a type of the Rapture?

Da Servant said:

Even if not this directly, he may be speaking of Ezekiel 37, the re-uniting of the house of Judah and the house of Israel, which precedes Ezekiel 38 & 39.

Isn't Ezekiel 37:22-24 referring to what will happen during the coming Millennium, which Millennium will be followed by the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel chapters 38-39, as shown in Revelation 20:7-9?

Da Servant said:

Let us read the words of the Lord and do them; let us also confess our sins before the Lord. It may be he will be gracious and forgive our sins.

Amen (James 1:22, 1 John 1:9).

And let us also prepare ourselves to go through the coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18, for Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Jesus can't return and gather together the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church and the Antichrist sits in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem and declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Matthew 24:9-31, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the world-reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-31).

When Jesus returns, he will descend bodily from heaven on a white horse (1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:27). Then those in the church will be resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53). Then the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1) into the sky to have a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and then marry the church (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before the church mounts white horses and descends back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he wages war against, and completely defeats, all the armies of the unsaved world, who will all have gathered against him (Revelation 19:19-21, Revelation 16:14-16). Then the resurrected and changed church, including those in the church who were beheaded by the Antichrist (the beast), will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

After the 1,000 years are over, the devil will be released from the bottomless pit and by deception bring about the Gog/Magog event and be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). At least seven years after the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:9), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who hadn't been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). After the great white throne judgment, God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). Then God the Father will descend from the third heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the new earth with Jesus and the church in New Jerusalem forever (Revelation 21:3, Revelation 22:3-5). In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8) in which all of unsaved humanity will be tormented forever in fire and brimstone with the devil and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46, Mark 9:45-46, Isaiah 66:24).

[Rick-Parker]

Indeed, there will be a pre-trib Rapture. And I look for it soon.

[OneLight]

Indeed, there will be a pre-trib Rapture. And I look for it soon.

From what I have read, the pre-trib idea started in the 1600's by a Puritan Minister in Mass. Funny how no other follower of Christ understood this concept prior to that.

[nebula]

1 Thes. 4

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Is there anything here to indicate when this will take place?

1 Cor. 15

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery ; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet ; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY ? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING ?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law ; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

How about here? The only thing it says concerning when is "at the last trumpet."

Would someone care to explain where in Scripture it states that "the last trumpet" sounds before or at the start of the Great Tribulation?

And if "the last trumpet" sounds before the Great Tribulation, what are the 7 trumpets that sound in the midst of it?

[Rick-Parker]

Indeed, there will be a pre-trib Rapture. And I look for it soon.

From what I have read, the pre-trib idea started in the 1600's by a Puritan Minister in Mass. Funny how no other follower of Christ understood this concept prior to that.

Oh well.

[OneLight]

Indeed, there will be a pre-trib Rapture. And I look for it soon.

From what I have read, the pre-trib idea started in the 1600's by a Puritan Minister in Mass. Funny how no other follower of Christ understood this concept prior to that.

Oh well.

That's it? Oh Well ... glad nothing depends on an explanation from you, Parker.

[wyguy]

Indeed, there will be a pre-trib Rapture. And I look for it soon.

From what I have read, the pre-trib idea started in the 1600's by a Puritan Minister in Mass. Funny how no other follower of Christ understood this concept prior to that.

That is a common error.

1. There is a document called "pseudo-ephraem" which is a sermon by Ephream of Nisibis from 373 AD. Ephream was one of the greatest figures in the Syrian Christian church. The sermon is entitled, "On the Last Times. The Antichrist, and the End of the World." In it he wrote, "For all the Saints and Elect of God are gathered prior to the Tribulation to come, and are taken to the Lord, lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

[OneLight]

Interesting piece. Thanks for the correction about when the first take on a pre-trib rapture was, but I can see that it may of even been before that time. It is also interesting to see that he only speaks of 3 1/2 years, not 7 years as many today say. It is also very clear that his time-frame and structure is off a lot ... let's look at what he had to say:

On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World

A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem

Section 1

Dearly beloved brothers, believe the Holy Spirit who speaks in us. We have already told you that the end of the world is near, the consummation remains. Has not faith withered away among mankind? How many foolish things are seen among youths, how many crimes among prelates, how many lies among priests, how many perjuries among deacons! There are evil deeds among the ministers, adulteries in the aged, wantonness in the youths

[Rick-Parker]

Indeed, there will be a pre-trib Rapture. And I look for it soon.

From what I have read, the pre-trib idea started in the 1600's by a Puritan Minister in Mass. Funny how no other follower of Christ understood this concept prior to that.

Oh well.

That's it? Oh Well ... glad nothing depends on an explanation from you, Parker.

Ya know, this is not supposed to be a debate on whether there will be a pre-trib rapture or not. There are plenty of pages of discussion, argument, innuendo (such as you have done here), name calling and closed threads on the issue. There is even a debate on the 3 different beliefs on this very topic category FYI. Perhaps you should read those topics again instead of throwing insults at me because my answer wasn't sufficient for you. By the way, you can do a search on what I have posted in regards to this issue to find out my position on it. Blessings to you, Brother.