We must forgive ourselves.

[Guest]

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion;

shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee:

he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. Zechariah 9;9

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....Joe, reading those verses you posted, I do not see how "forgiveness" can be placed in there instead of..."forgetting."....

Well

Yes You Are Correct

Our Response Is To Look Up And To Worship

To Adore Our LORD God Jesus The Messiah

Not To Look In The Mirror And Say

Oh What A Good Boy

Or How Bad

Am I

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. 1 John 2:12

All Sin Is Against God

And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. 2 Samuel 12:13

And It Is All About God And His Redemption

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

And Not About Our Vain Works Nor Our Filthy Righteousness

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6

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One Will Either Believe

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Psalms 103:12

Or Not

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

One Will Either Look Froward

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 1:21

Or Not

But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. Genesis 19:26

I Too Deal With This Issue

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

But I Know I Rob My Lord Of His Glory When I Fester Over Past Sins

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

And He Is Still Working On It

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Philippians 2:12-15

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed. Deuteronomy. 31:8

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest LadyC]

treetop, i do believe you can't see the forest for the trees here.

if you're beating yourself up and refusing to forgive yourself, then how the heck do you think you can focus on Jesus and His grace?

did you even read any of what i said in my previous posts? if you're not accepting the grace in which you now stand (romans 5) then you're giving the devil power over your life, and giving him glory, instead of focusing on Jesus and the sacrifice he made for you.

and as someone else so aptly put it, if God forgives you and you don't, then you're saying Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough.

in that scripture that fresno joe posted that says "forgetting what is behind", that means you no longer dwell on it. you no longer think about it, talk about it, beat yourself up over it. it's done and over with, forgive yourself and move forward in your walk with Christ instead of lingering back there in the guilt of your mistake.

i'm really sorry if i'm sounding exasperated, but i honestly don't understand what is so difficult to understand! as you study your bible and draw closer to your Lord and Saviour, hopefully it will become obvious to you that hanging on to your own unforgiveness of yourself is totally against the nature of God. it is self-serving, when what you want to be is Christ-serving.

why are you so insistant on not wanting to forgive yourself, anyway?

Ok, It is very clear that I am being misunderstood. I am not beating myself up about anything. Please read my last post one more time and you will see that I'm not getting down on myself at all. To answer your last question; I have not found anywhere in God's word where God tells me to forgive myself. To forgive others, yes. That is specifically in the "model" prayer that Jesus gave His disciples. All I am saying is that I'm very reluctant to "forgive myself" on just someone's word. Personally, I don't feel the need to forgive myself of my past sins even if I could, or should. Jesus has already done this. When I see the scriptures that say I am to forgive myself, well, then I will sure have to rethink a lot of things I imagine.

One more thing, I admitt that I have a difficult time putting into words what is going through my heart. Perhaps there is why you so misunderstood what I've been talking about. It's not you. It's me. I am trying my best, but I suppose that there is still much to learn of "communicating." I quit posting in this forum because of this, I felt I just wasn't ready. My thoughts of that have changed, as you can see now.

Do you have any scriptures that speak of this forgiving myself of my past sins?

God bless you,

Randal

well, i sure hope you don't quit posting here. you're a valuable member of this community, and we'd hate to lose you. i'll have to go back and read your last post prior to this one and see if i can get a clearer understanding. but to me, it seems that if you don't forgive yourself, then you're still feeling guilt. but if that's not the case, and this is kind of an abstract sort of question, then maybe that's a whole different thing.

if there is any lingering sense of shame or guilt over the transgressions of your past, though, i would have to ask this... if God has forgiven you, what right do you have to NOT forgive yourself?

anyway, just so i can try to get a grasp on this... when you are talking about whether or not to forgive yourself, are you meaning "forgive" in the sense of "exonerate"? because in THAT sense, you'd be right... only God can do that. but in the other sense, we absolutely must let go of any guilt or shame from our past in order to continue moving forward in our relationship with Christ. it is simply not possible to continue focusing on our own mistakes while keeping our eyes on Jesus.

[Guest LadyC]

ok, having just gone back and read that post that you wanted me to re-read, i'm now of the opinion that you are, indeed, thinking of "forgiving oneself" in terms of "exonerating oneself".

we can't. we aren't even supposed to try. that's God's job. so you're correct.

HOWEVER.... it's not a bogus teaching and it's not an unsound doctrine, because in a practical sense, the phrase "forgive yourself" does not literally mean to exonerate. it simply means to quit wallowing in the guilt and quit beating oneself up.

[oldzimm]

ok, having just gone back and read that post that you wanted me to re-read, i'm now of the opinion that you are, indeed, thinking of "forgiving oneself" in terms of "exonerating oneself".

we can't. we aren't even supposed to try. that's God's job. so you're correct.

HOWEVER.... it's not a bogus teaching and it's not an unsound doctrine, because in a practical sense, the phrase "forgive yourself" does not literally mean to exonerate. it simply means to quit wallowing in the guilt and quit beating oneself up.

That was an excellent way of explaining it LadyC.

[Guest LadyC]

thanks oldzimm, i hope it makes sense to treetopflyer that way.

i know people in real life, people very near and dear to me, who are filled with self-loathing. they have a terribly low opinion of themselves because of all the stupid things they've done in their life. and then what happens? in order to not feel so rotten all the time, they have to go do something stupid and medicate themselves. and then the cycle goes around again.... they sober up, they feel even worse about themselves, so they go get high or drunk again. that's no way to have a relationship! not with God, and not with family and friends. it's impossible for someone to have a healthy relationship with God or anyone else if they hate themselves.

oh oh oh, that brings to mind more supporting scriptures that i'm too lazy to look up.... loving others (wife, neighbor, brother) AS OURSELVES. people who can't forgive themselves have no ability to truly love themselves... and if we can't love ourself, we can't love others appropriately and as God commands us to do.

[fromIslam2Christ]

It is an interesting question.

The Word of God tells us that feeling ashamed of our past sinful acts is natural:

Romans 6: 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. NKJV

Even right after I was saved, I shamefully fell back even lower into sin... and even though I knew the Lord had forgiven me, I couldn't forgive myself and felt even worst off spiritually than ever. This particular passage helped me tremendouly in realizing that it is normal to feel ashamed of my past.

I was rescued from depression and discouragement when I stumbled upon this verse from Ephesians that is highlighted in my Bible (Eph 4: 21-23)

Since you have heard about Jesus and have learned the truth that comes from him, 22 throw off your old sinful nature and your former way of life, which is corrupted by lust and deception. 23 Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes. NLT

Notice how it starts with the thoughts and attitudes???

But how do we renew our thoughts?

That's where I find Philippians 4:8 useful for me when my thoughts threaten to focus on the negative:

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy

[jeffnevins]

Interesting topic. Thanks for the posts.

Memory of the past can be a tricky thing.

"If only I had done this instead", etc.

[winsomebulldog]

ok, having just gone back and read that post that you wanted me to re-read, i'm now of the opinion that you are, indeed, thinking of "forgiving oneself" in terms of "exonerating oneself".

we can't. we aren't even supposed to try. that's God's job. so you're correct.

HOWEVER.... it's not a bogus teaching and it's not an unsound doctrine, because in a practical sense, the phrase "forgive yourself" does not literally mean to exonerate. it simply means to quit wallowing in the guilt and quit beating oneself up.

ok, having just gone back and read that post that you wanted me to re-read, i'm now of the opinion that you are, indeed, thinking of "forgiving oneself" in terms of "exonerating oneself".

we can't. we aren't even supposed to try. that's God's job. so you're correct.

HOWEVER.... it's not a bogus teaching and it's not an unsound doctrine, because in a practical sense, the phrase "forgive yourself" does not literally mean to exonerate. it simply means to quit wallowing in the guilt and quit beating oneself up.

That was an excellent way of explaining it LadyC.

Having just read through this thread, I think LadyC has hit the nail on the head. The forgiving of ourselves that the original post was based upon is not a form of self salvation. Christ alone can perform that miracle. Our sins separate us from God. Christ's sacrifice on the cross atoned for those sins, allowing our Father, God to "cast them as far as the east is from the west" and to "remember them no more."

We, as fallible, fallen humans can do nothing at all to save ourselves, including "forgiving" ourselves for past sins. What we can, and generally should do, however, is to let our guilt over those past sins go. Our past is part of who we are and as such cannot be completely forgotten. A good example is the testimonies that come from out past. If we tried to forget every wrong thing we'd ever done (however major or minor we might perceive them to be) then how could we tell others about God's grace, compassion, and forgiveness? BUT- and I believe this is the point of the original post - if we allow ourselves to dwell on past sins that we have already repented of we run the serious risk of letting that guilt hinder both our walk with God and out ability to be an effective witness for Him. Dwelling on a past sin that you have repented of and been forgiven for can poison your spirit.

Ex. A Christian girl is very outgoing and friendly, eagerly telling everyone about God and always offering to help anyone with questions. One of these persons with questions is a boy. They become friends, then fall into the sin of fornication. She feels convicted, ends the relationship, and repents. God forgives her but she cannot let go of the guilt and shame she feels. She becomes so wrapped up in the guilt and shame that she withdraws. She becomes quiet and standoffish because she is so afraid of making the same mistake again. She no longer witnesses eagerly. She loses much of her effectiveness as a witness, not because she sinned, but because she lets her guilt get in the way.

This is just a longwinded example, but I've seen it happen in real life. We need guilt to prick us when we're in the wrong, but once we've recognized our sin and repented of it, we need to let it go. Satan will throw our past up in our faces because he'd rather have us focused on it than on God. While there may not be a verse of Scripture that specifically tells us to let go of sins that have been forgiven and forgotten by our Lord, it is a mere fact of common sense that if guilt or shame over one of these sins is hindering our devotion, witness, and/or service to God then WE need to let it go and stop trying to punish ourselves for a sin God has already forgotten!

[Guest]

ok, having just gone back and read that post that you wanted me to re-read, i'm now of the opinion that you are, indeed, thinking of "forgiving oneself" in terms of "exonerating oneself".

we can't. we aren't even supposed to try. that's God's job. so you're correct.

HOWEVER.... it's not a bogus teaching and it's not an unsound doctrine, because in a practical sense, the phrase "forgive yourself" does not literally mean to exonerate. it simply means to quit wallowing in the guilt and quit beating oneself up.

Good morning,

First, I would like to say it was very interesting to discuss this with you and everyone else on this thread. To discuss our differences of what we believe without resorting to making any sort of accusations or anything of that nature, this is cool. As this is a non-essential belief for salvation(this belief that one has to forgive his or her self), we should never have a war. (I do admitt at first when I read this question, I wondered if this was getting very close to the doctrine of salvation). I see now where your coming from with this question...not as in "forgiving myself," but more so of not living in the guilt and shame of things done in past times. Which to me, is totally different than the original post question.

Ok, I had to look up this word exonerate. And from what, ahh, here's the definition. ex

[Guest LadyC]

man, english was my best subject way back when in high school, and now i can't even figure out how to use the appropriate word... ok, exonerate apparently wasn't it. but i think you get the drift... we can't pardon ourselves for our own sins. we can't perform a salvational act or act of redemption. but yes, we must let go of our pity-party and self-inflicted guilt trip! glad we got that all straightened out, whether it was a misleading phrase or just mere semantics, it's all good now!