Ezekiel 38

[nebula]

RD - Wow on your research!

Sam - the Iranian Imams are from Turkey? And the Iranian leaders are OK with this? That's bizarre.

[RebekahDavid]

I have some friends who don't think Russia is actually part of the people involved in this war. They have maps and books that trace the people mentioned in Ezedial to the area of Turkey and half of those "??stan" countries that are all Muslim countries.

I think they got involved is reasearching from reading Joel Rosenburg's book "The Twelfth Imam."

It's interesting that the leading religious leaders of Iran are actually Turkish. I've seen video's of the Imams in Turkey from as far back as the 1970's speaking of reviving the Ottoman Empire and taking control of all the old lands. That would pretty much be most of the area covered in the Ezekial war.

Blessings,

Turkey is a major player also for sure as well Iran an ect but i believe Russia is involved as well.

i was trying to look up military alliances between these countries and the others when the puter got zapped ( i started with Georgia because it was the easiest to spell lol go figure)

Azerbaijan

Uzbekistan

Georgia

Armenia

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[Guest Moses42]

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

From the biblical prophecy books I read in the past, few mentioned that 'put hooks into thy jaws'... means they 'force' the Gog and Magog to get involved into a war that the Islam states start. Probably part of a deal that the Gog couldn't refuse or ignore. Oil? Maybe.

As of recent media news they mentioned about some possibility of oil discovery in the Mediterranean Sea just just west of Israel. There is a link with more sources about it at: http://www.oilinisrael.net/

[enoob57]

Blessings,

Ezekiel 38

1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

9Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

13Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

14Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

15And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

16And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

17Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

i believe the "hooks" for this prophecy has been found with the recent discovery of natural gas in Israel.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

There is another thing to be considered "hooks in the jaw" jaw being in purpose for speaking or eating... the possible aspect of food shortage and land availability to produce enough and the answer is more size and abundance of produce... http://www.veoliawat...ases/?case=9036 we used potassium chloride in our garden and grew a 9 pound sweet potato also put some on a fruitless mulberry tree and it increased in size so rapidly that it's outer bark split in growth.... motivation of life now is Not freezing and Not starving two very good reasons for trying to take what you don't have... Love Steven

[mizzdy]

The LXX or septuagint, which is the hebrew translated into greek of the OT has Gog or Agag as the Amalekites. In 1 Esdras Hamon the evil dude in Ruth was described as an Amalekite from a particular region of Agag of the Persian empire which is also mention as district place in the Persian empire, which is mentioned in an Assyrian inscription of Sargon. In 1 Sam. 15 King Saul is ordered to kill all the Amalekites or as this verse says, '15:8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.' It seems its the Amalkites that is seen as Gog or Agag as some translations have it. God stated after the Israelites did not do as commanded and kill them all that they would be the ones who would basically be a throne in the side of all Israel and He would make an end to them when He returned wiping their names off the face of the earth forever. I guess that would make Gog, Persia, where the Assyrians capital was, the lands east of Assyria, Josephus has them in the territories south of Palestine.

I believe the hooks in the jaw are just that God putting into their minds, hook is translated as ring that pierces so it does seem God is causing them to come against Israel for His own purposes. I do think theres much possiblity that Russia is in with Turkey and the rest and that they are a nice pocketbook for the islamic nations but Russia as the envading army does not fit with who goes against Israel. Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq, etc. all the lands that were Israels ancient enemies are the ones seen in scripture but we just know that Russia, China as well as America, the EU and UN have been giving these the ability to grow and expand and become power players in the world.

[Bold Believer]

The Gog and Magog of Ezekiel isn't the same Gog and Magog of Rev 20. John uses them as illustrations. In Ezekiel, Gog and Magog are spoken of as coming from specific nations, in Revelation 20, Gog appears to be Satan himself and Magog is the nations that come from the four corners of the earth (i.e. from everywhere). If you notice in Revelation 20, there are no survivors to the Gog/Magog War; in Ezekiel there are survivors in Israel who bury Gog and Magog's dead for a period of seven months. Look for yourselves, don't buy the lies.

[Guest borderline]

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[enoob57]

I think the hooks (two) for Russia will be the desire for the huge amount of oil that Isreal will discover in their land in the future, and from a military alliance with Iran and the Arab states hostile to Isreal. When those states attack Israel, Russia will be bound to follow them.

My Brother I miss Him!... He is speaking of the prophecy some believe is speaking out here

Job 29:6

6 When my steps were bathed with cream,

And the rock poured out rivers of oil for me!

NKJV

Deut 32:13

13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;

KJV

Deut 33:24

24 And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil.

KJV

Map Moody atlas of Bible lands

The Miggedo valley or Jezreel valley

Wikipedia photo...

some 200 miles in length The dead shall be heaped 4-5 feet throughout this valley in the final battle

Rev 16:16

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

NKJV

It will take many years to bury the dead... Love Steven

[Bible2]

Bold Believer said:

The Gog and Magog of Ezekiel isn't the same Gog and Magog of Rev 20.

Note that they could be the same, for nothing requires that they aren't. So the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) may not happen until after the peaceful millennium (Revelation 20:7-9), at a time when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11), which is the exact opposite of today, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in a constant fear of attack.

Also, the reason that the Gog/Magog armies will employ wooden weapons (Ezekiel 39:9-10) after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9) will be because at the beginnng of the millennium all present-day weapons of war will be destroyed, and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). It won't be until after the millennium is over that the Gog/Magog armies will be allowed to make weapons of war, and they will be only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect and cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:9-10).

Bold Believer said:

John uses them as illustrations.

Note that John could be referring to the same event as Ezekiel chapters 38-39.

Bold Believer said:

In Ezekiel, Gog and Magog are spoken of as coming from specific nations, in Revelation 20, Gog appears to be Satan himself and Magog is the nations that come from the four corners of the earth (i.e. from everywhere).

Note that nothing requires that the Gog in Revelation 20 is Satan himself. The Gog in Revelation 20 could be the same Gog as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39, an individual human leader (Ezekiel 38:3), who could be born near the end of the coming millennium, and who will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog attack (Ezekiel 39:11).

Also, note that nothing requires that the the Gog/Magog attack will involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could just be a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus Christ's worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2), but after the millennium they will be deceived by Satan into committing their attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Those in Christ's kingdom who will be deceived by Satan into becoming part of the Gog/Magog attack after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9) could be unsaved descendants of the unsaved people who had been left alive at Christ's second coming (Matthew 24:39b-40) and who then entered into the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19).

Bold Believer said:

If you notice in Revelation 20, there are no survivors to the Gog/Magog War; in Ezekiel there are survivors in Israel who bury Gog and Magog's dead for a period of seven months. Look for yourselves, don't buy the lies.

Note that nothing requires that there will be no Israelite survivors of Revelation 20:9.

Also, it should be pointed out that while the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the defeat of the Gog/Magog attack (Ezekiel chapters 38-39, Revelation 20:7-10), nothing requires that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after the defeat of the attack. For there will be at least seven years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the defeat of the Gog/Magog attack and the great white throne judgment.

While the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the millennium is over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could still suffer a different attack at the start of the coming tribulation, which could result in Israel's total defeat. One way this could happen is that the U.S. could build up the Iraqi Army until it's huge enough and well-equipped enough to serve as a proxy army (for the U.S. and Israel) for an all-out ground invasion of Iran (to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime). As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall some of the former Baathist military hierarchy to run the Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly. And if the current Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, the CIA and the Mossad could then help the Baathists (who see non-Arab Iran as an enemy of Arab autonomy) to take back complete control of Iraq via a coup d'etat.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the third holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to prepare the site for the building of a third Jewish temple. This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran and instead turn and send their huge army against tiny Israel, completely defeating it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this would not be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat Egypt (Daniel 11:15), the regime of which (even if there's some ostensible change in Egypt) the Baathists could see as still being a puppet of the U.S., just as the Baathists could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. The ultimate aim of Baathism is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the Baathist Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hizballah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Tiny Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from three directions at the same time, with thousands of missiles raining down all at once on all of its cities and military bases, and hundreds of Iraqi tanks (meant to occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its tiny sliver of land completely overrun, and sees its defeat as imminent, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran and all the other major cities of Iraq, Syria and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that a fourth of the world could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the coming tribulation, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing a fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification".

The first thing the Antichrist could do once he's given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist confederation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated Israel), is to perform a very small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26, Daniel 11:22). They could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it's not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm.

Then, instead of executing all the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false "Messiah", the Antichrist will do an amazing thing: he will make a peace treaty with them (Daniel 11:23); he will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26), permitting them to keep a third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least seven more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Bible2

[Jasher]

This is my first post. I am a history person so that is my bent. The hooks mentioned in Ezekiel was the practice of putting hooks in the lips of prisoners in order to control them easily. One soldier could hold a whole handful of tethers attached to the hooks. So one soldier could control quite a number of prisioners. As I recall the verse applies to the second excursion of Antiochus when he was returning to Syria from a failed campaign against Egypt.

"Antiochus besieged Alexandria but he was unable to cut communications to the city and he also needed to deal with a revolt of Maccabees in Judaea so, at the end of 169, he withdrew his army. In his absence, Ptolemy VI and his brother were reconciled. Antiochus, angered at his loss of control over the king, invaded again. The Egyptians sent to Rome asking for help and the Senate despatched Gaius Popilius Laenas to Alexandria. Meanwhile, Antiochus had seized Cyprus and Memphis and was marching on Alexandria. At Eleusis, on the outskirts of the capital, he met Popilius Laenas, with whom he had been hustlas during his stay in Rome. But instead of a friendly welcome, Popilius offered the king an ultimatum from the Senate: he must evacuate Egypt and Cyprus immediately. Antiochus begged to have time to consider but Popilius drew a circle round him in the sand with his cane and told him to decide before he stepped outside it. Antiochus chose to obey the Roman ultimatum. The "Day of Eleusis" ended the Sixth Syrian War and Antiochus' hopes of conquering Egyptian territory."

Returning from Egypt defeated by the threat of Roman confrontation an evil thought entered his mind - plunder Jerusalem. Why not he was passing it on his way back to Syria. This was his second excursion to Israel. He needed plunder to support his army. God said he would put a hook in his mouth and draw him back to Israel again.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Jasher