Is Atheism a religion?

[Ebwly]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools...2

Romans 1.

Bolded Parts especially

So when I mean that they don't exist, I mean that they do know God, they just don't seek him and they rebel against him. I know an atheist exists, I'm just saying, according to the bible, people who are atheists do believe in God, they just refuse to acknowledgment God.

Okay, I see what you mean and I agree. Note that so many atheists will rebel against God and deny Him while at the same time saying He doesn't exist. Logic tells us that those actions are in direct contradiction to each other.

Agreed. Put it this way:

A man rejects God neither because of intellectual demands nor because of the scarcity of evidence. A man rejects God because of a moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God.

[Guest treesong]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools...2

Romans 1.

Bolded Parts especially

So when I mean that they don't exist, I mean that they do know God, they just don't seek him and they rebel against him. I know an atheist exists, I'm just saying, according to the bible, people who are atheists do believe in God, they just refuse to acknowledgment God.

Okay, I see what you mean and I agree. Note that so many atheists will rebel against God and deny Him while at the same time saying He doesn't exist. Logic tells us that those actions are in direct contradiction to each other.

Agreed. Put it this way:

A man rejects God neither because of intellectual demands nor because of the scarcity of evidence. A man rejects God because of a moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God.

Not agreed. An atheist will never say that he rebels against God. That is an absurdity. You cannot rebel

against someone that you do not think He exists. And that would also be silly, considering that God

will surely win at the end.

In my case, loss of faith was caused by the fact that I could not accept the existence of a being Who allows

all the suffering in the world. Sin and free will were not a sufficient explanation anymore.

Now my main motivations are lack of evidence and the fact that there are too many different and

contracting religions in the world. Each one states to be the true one. Since there is no real

test that can be performed to check who is right, it is more sensible to conclude that everybody

might be wrong and leave it at that. This also explain suffering as the consequence of natural processes

which are basically indifferent of our suffering. I know it is not encouraging to believe this, but

it satisfies me more, intellectually.

I do not understand what you mean with moral resistance. My only moral resistance was against the

acceptance of a benevolent father who does not prevent all this evil.

[nebula]

I do not understand what you mean with moral resistance. My only moral resistance was against the

acceptance of a benevolent father who does not prevent all this evil.

Would you want a God who would forcibly prevent you from the little lie you were about to tell?

That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

[Guest treesong]

I do not understand what you mean with moral resistance. My only moral resistance was against the

acceptance of a benevolent father who does not prevent all this evil.

Would you want a God who would forcibly prevent you from the little lie you were about to tell?

That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

I am not too much concerned about little lies.

I am concerned about the millions of children who die of hunger and disease every year.

Plus the victims of catastrophic events and the pain in the animal world, etc.

The very fact that many animals need to kill in order to survive casts big doubts

on a benevolent design. That I could not understand and caused my irreversible de-conversion.

My pastor (or his catholic equivalent) told me that this was caused by original sin and the fall.

But that did not convince me anymore. I found that disproportionate and unjust, especially

for the animals (except maybe one) who did not and could not sin, and cannot even hope to

go back to heaven.

[Guest treesong]

That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

I am afraid I cannot avoid coming to this conclusion anyway.

Even earthy tyrants are not capable to control our thoughts. We are still free to rebel against them

and face the consequences if we do. I fear I cannot see a big difference.

[Rick-Parker]

I don't agree WyGuy. It seems to me that Christians -- believing in an all-knowing, all-powerful force called God that always existed -- require the greater faith.

It does, indeed. Faith is (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust. That is how we are saved, by the grace of God through faith in that He, in the person of Jesus Christ, humbled Himself to became man, was crucified and died, sinless, on the cross. Taking upon Himself the sins of every person who ever lived. He was buried in a tomb for three days and nights and then rose again, defeating death. He appeared to hundreds of people after His resurrection. He then returned to Heaven in His reincarnate person to sit at the right hand of God. And the Spirit of God fills the hearts of those who believe all of this through faith. Those who reject the Truth, who don't have faith that these events are true, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Carbalists, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, and all other non-believers, will meet Him someday, knowing that they made a terrible mistake and will try to beg their way out of what they are now certain is their fate. But by then it will be too late. All because they had faith in their own gods, whether it be themselves, evolution, the big bang, some false deity or nothing at all.

Most Christians grieve for those such as you, who are lost and destined for an eternity separated from God, to suffer forever in the Lake of Fire. Of course, you don't believe this, but that doesn't mean that it won't happen for it surely will. How do we know? Because Christians have faith that what God says in the Bible is the Truth. A much stronger faith than you will ever experience unless God calls to you personally and you accept His invitation to salvation.

[nebula]

I am not too much concerned about little lies.

I am concerned about the millions of children who die of hunger and disease every year.

Have you ever considered how much hunger in the world is a result of man's corruption? War, governments preventing distribution of aid,etc.

A lot of diseases, especially in non-developed countries, are a result of poor sanitation.

These are things that stem from man's action or inaction, man's choice.

And if you think little lies are inconsequential, you are deceiving yourself.

That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

I am afraid I cannot avoid coming to this conclusion anyway.

Even earthy tyrants are not capable to control our thoughts. We are still free to rebel against them

and face the consequences if we do. I fear I cannot see a big difference.

"Fear"? I don't that. I am sure you are quite proud of your superior mind.

[MorningGlory]

That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

I am afraid I cannot avoid coming to this conclusion anyway.

Even earthy tyrants are not capable to control our thoughts. We are still free to rebel against them

and face the consequences if we do. I fear I cannot see a big difference.

Let's get this straight one last time, Treesong. Read carefully....you ARE free to rebel against God and you are doing so right now by denying Him. You are also free to face the consequences, and you will. If you can't see a difference between God and, say, Stalin.....I just feel pity for you. I'm going to pray for your deliverance.

[Guest]

Some

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:8

Must Cleave To Dirt

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:16-17

And Curse The Only

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 2 Peter 2:9-10

Source Of All Things Good And Pure

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

A Sad And Sorry Way To Give Credit Where Credit Is Do, You Think?

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That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

I am afraid I cannot avoid coming to this conclusion anyway. Even earthy tyrants are not capable to control our thoughts. We are still free to rebel against them and face the consequences if we do. I fear I cannot see a big difference.

Let's get this straight one last time, Treesong. Read carefully....you ARE free to rebel against God and you are doing so right now by denying Him. You are also free to face the consequences, and you will. If you can't see a difference between God and, say, Stalin.....I just feel pity for you. I'm going to pray for your deliverance.

Amen!

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God's Blessings Fall On Sinner And Saint Alike

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:45

Yet Most Sinners Will Not See Jesus

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

Shackled To Their Shame

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. John 8:34

So They Accuse Daddy

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: James 1:13

Of All Their Evil

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14

And Sin

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15

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Believe

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

And Be Blessed Beloved

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

Love, Joe

[Ebwly]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools...2

Romans 1.

Bolded Parts especially

So when I mean that they don't exist, I mean that they do know God, they just don't seek him and they rebel against him. I know an atheist exists, I'm just saying, according to the bible, people who are atheists do believe in God, they just refuse to acknowledgment God.

Okay, I see what you mean and I agree. Note that so many atheists will rebel against God and deny Him while at the same time saying He doesn't exist. Logic tells us that those actions are in direct contradiction to each other.

Agreed. Put it this way:

A man rejects God neither because of intellectual demands nor because of the scarcity of evidence. A man rejects God because of a moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God.

Not agreed. An atheist will never say that he rebels against God. That is an absurdity. You cannot rebel

against someone that you do not think He exists. And that would also be silly, considering that God

will surely win at the end.

In my case, loss of faith was caused by the fact that I could not accept the existence of a being Who allows

all the suffering in the world. Sin and free will were not a sufficient explanation anymore.

Now my main motivations are lack of evidence and the fact that there are too many different and

contracting religions in the world. Each one states to be the true one. Since there is no real

test that can be performed to check who is right, it is more sensible to conclude that everybody

might be wrong and leave it at that. This also explain suffering as the consequence of natural processes

which are basically indifferent of our suffering. I know it is not encouraging to believe this, but

it satisfies me more, intellectually.

I do not understand what you mean with moral resistance. My only moral resistance was against the

acceptance of a benevolent father who does not prevent all this evil.

First of all, it is possible that God has reasons for allowing evil to exist that we simply cannot understand. In this the Christian can have confidence in God knowing that His ways are above our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). As the Bible says, the just shall live by faith (Hab. 2:4).

"How can a mere finite human be sure that infinite wisdom would not tolerate certain short-range evils in order for more long-range goods that we couldn't foresee?"

it is quite possible that God uses the suffering to do good. In other words, He produces patience through tribulation (Rom. 5:3). Or He may desire to save someone through it. Take for example, the account of Joseph who was sold into slavery by His brothers. What they did was wrong and Joseph suffered greatly for it. But, later, God raised up Joseph in Egypt to make provisions for the people of that land during the coming drought of seven years. Not only was Egypt saved, but also his family and brothers who originally sold him into slavery. Joseph finally says to them, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" (Gen. 50:15-21).

Analogy:

Imagine a bear in a trap and a hunter who, out of sympathy, wants to liberate him. He tries to win the bear's confidence, but he can't do it, so he has to shoot the bear full of drugs. The bear, however, thinks this is an attack and that the hunter is trying to kill him. He doesn't realize that this is being done out of compassion. "Then, in order to get the bear out of the trap, the hunter has to push him further into the trap to release the tension on the spring. If the bear were semiconscious at that point, he would be even more convinced that the hunter was his enemy who was out to cause him suffering and pain. But the bear would be wrong. He reaches this incorrect conclusion because he's not a human being." how can anyone be certain that's not an analogy between us and God? I believe God does the same to us sometimes, and we can't comprehend why he does it any more than the bear can understand the motivations of the hunter. As the bear could have trusted the hunter, so we can trust God."

The existence of evil in favour of the existence of God

If there is no God, where did we get the standard of goodness by which we judge evil as evil?

God gave Adam dominion over the world (Gen. 1:28). When he rebelled against God, he set in motion an entire series of events and changed the very nature of man and creation. Both were affected by sin. Creation was no longer a paradise, but bore thorns and thistles (Gen. 3:17-18; Rom. 8:22). People became sinful (Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3), who were haters of God (Rom. 3:19-12), etc. The only conclusion to such a situation is death. Jesus said, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect