Can Omniscience and free will coexist?

[doubting_tommy]

Belief is an element of faith, but belief itself is not faith. Faith goes beyond belief.

I think I'm coming closer to an understanding now. Could you give me an example of something you have faith in, which is not something to do with God/Jesus/religion?

[nebula]

Getting the Apollo 13 crew home alive.

"Failure is not an option" was a declaration of faith.

[doubting_tommy]

Getting the Apollo 13 crew home alive.

"Failure is not an option" was a declaration of faith.

By Bill Broyles? (That line was made up for the movie, if I recall correctly.) This is part of the reason why it's difficult for me to understand what faith is supposed to mean. To me, the phrase 'failure is not an option' just looks like a simple statement of determination and belief.

Edited November 23, 2010 by doubting_tommy

[nebula]

Oh, sorry, I had not heard that. (One would think that would have come up on the astronomy message board... oh well.)

Well . . .

One of their questions was "Weren't there times when everybody, or at least a few people, just panicked?" My answer was "No, when bad things happened, we just calmly laid out all the options, and failure was not one of them. We never panicked, and we never gave up on finding a solution."

http://www.spaceacts.com/notanoption.htm

Yes, you could say they believed they would find a solution, but that belief would have meant nothing if they didn't work their tails off finding a solution - would it?

What was their belief based upon? They were faced with a situation that seemed hopeless on many levels, yet they chose to ignore the hopelessness and focus on the hope.

Do you not think it extraordinary that no one panicked?

That to me says "faith."

[doubting_tommy]

Yes, you could say they believed they would find a solution, but that belief would have meant nothing if they didn't work their tails off finding a solution - would it?

What was their belief based upon? They were faced with a situation that seemed hopeless on many levels, yet they chose to ignore the hopelessness and focus on the hope.

Do you not think it extraordinary that no one panicked?

That to me says "faith."

I don't think they necessarily needed to believe that they would find a solution, only that if they were to maximise their chances of finding a solution, they should not panic. With that said, I think it might make sense to me to say that they had 'faith' that they would succeed.

[nebula]

I don't think they necessarily needed to believe that they would find a solution, only that if they were to maximise their chances of finding a solution, they should not panic.

That's not how I read the statement, but nonetheless...

With that said, I think it might make sense to me to say that they had 'faith' that they would succeed.

Well, that is what I am trying to say.

[OneLight]

The logic I was referring to removes all responsibility from the sinner, which is not a biblical correct statement at all. We are responsible for our actions and will be held accountable for them, meaning that we do have a choice to commit sin or not. If we are found without the blood of Christ, forgiven for our sins, the judgment falls fully on us.

I *think* this is probably correct. The reasons we would have as a society for holding people morally responsible may not be the same as the reasons God would have for holding people morally responsible. So while we would still have the option of 'holding people responsible' in order to protect society, that option would not apply in the case of a God who would punish and reward his creations for the decisions they made in life.

I am not even considering what the world, or society, thinks, but only how God views it. In this post-modern world, it is highly held that what is true to you may not be true to me. We can never hold such a stance in Christ. There is one truth and only one.

[doubting_tommy]

I have another question on free will, if anyone would be kind enough to give me their perspective on it.

Assuming we have free will, then it was an exercise of free will which ensured (to some extent) that your parents conceived you. I.e., if your parents had not made the decision to have a baby, you would not have been born. Obviously other factors played a part too, but this is part of it.

If this is the case, to what extent did God 'plan' or intend that you were born. If your life is part of God's plan and always has been, did your parents really have free will in choosing to have a baby? Could they have chosen otherwise?

[nebula]

A question like that is like trying to figure out how you can determine a quantum particle's speed and location at the same time.

[Rick-Parker]

God does not "plan" anyone's everything. He knows in advance what will happen. He didn't cause your parents to have sex so that you could be conceived, but He knew before the beginning of time that they would and therefore has a plan. But that plan is flexible and depends on the decisions that you make. And of course, He already knows what your choices will be. He will try and influence you towards Christ, but you have the final say on whether you choose Him or yourself. After so long, He will stop trying to lead you and will turn you over to your own depraved human condition. Of course, He already knows the choice you will make, but He tries none the less. That's free will.

(I don't mean you specifically d_t.)