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Posted
DISCLAIMER: i AM a Christian

Me, too.

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Posted

hello, undecided God has revealed himself unto you. I will tell you how as the Holy Ghost gives me utterance. :rofl: Jesus :il:


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Posted
The answer, of course, is that it depends. Please tell me how many tries you intend to try, how hard you shake the can on each try, how big or small the can is relative to the size of watch parts, and how many tries has been unsuccessful. With that information, we can probably come up with the probability of success. Similarly, to complete your analogy to the world and nature, we need the same sort of information for the world.

You can take as many as you like. It will never come together by this method. the part will break eachother up and the laws of thermodynamics will take over and they will discintegrate.

LT


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Posted

Here are 46 statements of "official" RCC doctrine from here

The following statements can be verified by consulting volumes 1 and 2 of the book, Vatican Council II printed by Costello Publishing Co., Northport, New York. Austin Flannery, O. P., is the general editor and each volume contains the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur. The editions are: 1984 (Vol. 1) and 1982 (Vol. 2).

This most recent Roman Catholic Council, which closed on December 8, 1965, is the current official stand of Roman Catholicism. The following quotes are that official stand. (All bold print has been used for emphasis. Furthermore, brackets have been used to increase clarity.)

1. "Hence, both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal feelings of devotion and reverence." (Vol. 1, page 755)

2. "But the task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone." (Vol. 1, p. 755)

3. "But by divine institution it is the exclusive task of these pastors alone, the successors of Peter and the other Apostles, to teach the faithful authentically, that is with the authority of Christ ...." (Vol. 2, p. 430)

4. "... it [the Roman Catholic Church] condemns with anathema those who say that indulgences are useless or that the Church does not have the power to grant them." (Vol. 1, p. 71)

5. "An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain defined conditions through the Church's help when, as minister of Redemption, she dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfaction won by Christ and the saints." (Vol. 1, p. 75)

6. "An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin." (Vol. 1, p. 75)

7. "Partial as well as plenary indulgences can always be applied to the dead by way of prayer." (Vol. 1, p. 75)

8. "... the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and because it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' (2 Mac. 12:46) she offers her suffrages for them." (Vol. 1, p. 410)

9. "The faithful who use with devotion an object of piety (crucifix, cross, rosary, scapular or medal) after it has been duly blessed by any priest, can gain a partial indulgence." (Vol. 1, p. 77)

10. "We believe that the souls of all those who die in the grace of Christ -- whether they must still make expiation in the fire of Purgatory, or whether from the moment they leave their bodies they are received by Jesus into Paradise like the good thief -- go to form that People of God ...." (Vol. 2, p. 394)

11. "Sins must be expiated. This may be done on this earth through the sorrows, miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death." (Vol. 1, p. 63)

12. "The doctrine of purgatory clearly demonstrates that even when the guilt of sin has been taken away, punishment for it or the consequences of it may remain to be expiated or cleansed." (Vol. 1, p. 64)

13. "Following in Christ's steps, those who believe in him have always tried to help one another along the path which leads to the heavenly Father, through prayer, the exchange of spiritual goods and penitential expiation .... They have carried their crosses to make expiation for their own sins and the sins of others. They were convinced that they could help their brothers to obtain salvation from God who is the Father of mercies. This is the very ancient dogma called the Communion of Saints." (Vol. 1, pp. 65 and 66)

14. "Confession of sins is part of the sacrament of penance. It issues from true self-knowledge and sorrow for sin. Such interior heart-searching and external accusation ought to be done in the awareness of God's mercy. Confession presupposes in the penitent the willingness to open his heart to God's minister. It presupposes in the minister spiritual judgment, for it is he who, acting for Christ and having the power of the keys, the power to forgive and to retain sins, pronounces judgment." (Vol. 2, p. 38)

15. "Further, when our Saviour Jesus Christ gave the power to forgive sins to the apostles and their successors, he instituted the sacrament of penance, so that the faithful who had committed sin after baptism could be restored to grace and reconciled to God." (Vol. 2, p. 36)

16. "The penance imposed may fittingly take the form of prayer, or self-denial, but especially of service of the neighbour and works of mercy. By these latter the social aspect of sin and of its forgiveness are set in relief." (Vol. 2, p. 43)

17. "In the sacrifice of the Mass in fact, Christ offers himself for the salvation of the entire world." (Vol. 1, p. 114)

18. "The celebration of the Eucharist which takes place at Mass is the action not only of Christ, but also of the Church. For in it Christ perpetuates in an unbloody manner the sacrifice offered on the cross, offering himself to the Father for the world's salvation through the ministry of priests." (Vol. 1, p. 103)

19. "We believe that the Mass which is celebrated by the priest in the person of Christ in virtue of the power he receives in the Sacrament of Order ... is indeed the Sacrifice of Calvary sacramentally realized on our altars." (Vol. 2, p. 393)

20. "When the Mass is to be offered for a dead person, one can insert into this prayer a special formula just before the Memento." (Vol. 1, p. 202)

21. "We believe that the Blessed Mary, who ever enjoys the dignity of virginity, was the Mother of the Incarnate Word, of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ, and that in view of her Son's merits she was redeemed in a more exalted manner and preserved from all stain of sin, outstripping in excellence all other creatures by reason of the grace given her." (Vol. 2, pp. 390 and 391)

22. "Finally the Immaculate Virgin preserved free from all stain of original sin, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, when her earthly life was over, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things ...." (Vol. 1, pp. 417 and 418)

23. "She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ, she presented him to the Father in the temple, shared her son's sufferings as he died on the cross. Thus, in a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Savior in restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace." (Vol. 1, p. 418)

24. "Taken up to heaven she [Mary] did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation." (Vol. 1, p. 419)

25. "Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith: and when she is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts the faithful to come to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father." (Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

26. "From the earliest times the Blessed Virgin is honored under the title of Mother of God, whose protection the faithful take refuge together in prayer in all their perils and needs." (Vol. 1, p. 421)

27. "We believe that the multitude of those souls gathered around Jesus and Mary in Paradise forms the Heavenly Church." (Vol. 2, pp. 394 and 395)

28. "By baptism men and women are cleansed from original sin and from all personal sins, they are born again as children of God, are made part of the Church and are made holy by the gifts of the Holy Spirit." (Vol. 2, p. 561)

29. "We believe in one baptism instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Baptism is also to be given to infants, who cannot as yet be guilty of any personal sin, in order that, though born deprived of supernatural grace, they may be reborn of water and the Holy Spirit to divine life in Christ Jesus." (Vol. 2, p. 391)

30. "Baptism, which is necessary for salvation, is the sign and the means of God's prevenient love, which frees us from original sin and communicates to us a share in divine life." (Vol. 2, pp. 111 and 112)

31. "Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it." (Vol. 1, pp. 365 and 366)

32. "The infallibility, however, with which the divine redeemer wished to endow his Church in defining doctrine pertaining to faith and morals, is co-extensive with the deposit of revelation, which must be religiously guarded and loyally and courageously expounded. The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful -- who confirms his brethren in the faith (cf. Lk. 22:32) -- he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith and morals." (Vol. 1, p. 380)

33. "Above all, they acknowledge the authority of the successor of Blessed Peter, the key bearer of heaven. To them the Savior himself entrusted the task of feeding his flock and ruling his Church." (Vol. 1, p. 72)

34. "We believe in the infallibility enjoyed by the Successor of Peter when he speaks ex cathedra as shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, an infallibility which the whole Episcopate also enjoys when it exercises with him the supreme magisterium." (Vol. 2, p. 392)

35. "This loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, even when he does not speak ex cathedra in such wise, indeed, that his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and that one sincerely adhere to decisions made by him, conformably with his manifest mind and intention ...." (Vol. 1, p. 379)

36. "There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that all the faithful ought to show to the most holy sacrament the worship which is due to the true God, as has always been the custom of the Catholic Church. Nor is it to be adored any less because it was instituted by Christ to be eaten.' " (Vol. 1, p. 104)

37. "The Eucharist is above all else a sacrifice. It is the sacrifice of the Redemption and also the sacrifice of the New Covenant ...." (Vol. 2, p. 75)

38. "We believe that the mass which is celebrated by the priest in the person of Christ in virtue of the power he receives in the Sacrament of Order, and which is offered by him in the name of Christ and of the members of his Mystical Body, is indeed the Sacrifice of Calvary sacramentally realized on our altars. We believe that, as the bread and wine consecrated by the Lord at the Last Supper were changed into his Body and Blood which were to be offered for us on the Cross, so likewise are the bread and wine consecrated by the priest changed into the Body and Blood of Christ now enthroned in glory in heaven." (Vol. 2, p. 393)

39. "The practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they [the images] be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained." (Vol. 1, p.35)

40. "From the very earliest days of the Church there has been a tradition whereby images of our Lord, his holy Mother, and of saints are displayed in churches for the veneration of the faithful." (Vol. 1, p. 193)

41. "There is no doubt that ... the Rosary should be considered as one of the best and most efficacious prayers in common that the Christian family is invited to recite." (Vol. 2, p. 865)

42. "But at the same time the [second Vatican] Council did not hesitate to confirm solemnly the ancient, sacred and providential present law of priestly celibacy." (Vol. 2, p. 290)

43. "He [the celibate priest] will not be lacking the protection of the Virgin Mother of Jesus nor the motherly solicitude of the Church, to whom he has given himself in service." (Vol 2, p. 301)

44. "Venerable brothers, pastors of God's flock throughout the world, and dearly beloved priest, Our sons and brothers: as We come to the end of this letter which We have addressed to you, We invite you, with a soul responsive to Christ's great love, to turn your eyes and heart with renewed confidence and filial hope to the most loving Mother of Jesus and Mother of the Church, and to invoke for the Catholic priesthood her powerful and maternal intercession." (Vol. 2, p 313)

45. "And so I [Pope John Paul, II] desire that all of you should, with me, find in Mary the mother of the priesthood which we have received from Christ ... among the people of God which look to Mary with immense love and hope, you must look to her with exceptional love and hope. Indeed, it is your task to proclaim Christ, her Son. And who can better communicate to you the truth about him than his mother? It is your task to nourish men's hearts with Christ. And who can make you more aware of what you are doing than she who nourished him? Hail, true Body, born of the Virgin Mary.' There is a wonderful dimension to our ministerial priesthood: it places us near the mother of Christ." (Vol. 2, p. 360)

46. "This sacred council accepts loyally the venerable faith of our ancestors in the living communion which exists between us and our brothers who are in the glory of heaven or who are yet being purified after their death; and it proposes again the decrees of the Second Council of Nicea, of the Council of Florence, and of the Council of Trent." (Vol. 1, p. 412)


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Posted

Larry? Did you post this on the right thread? I missed the connection.


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Posted
Larry? Did you post this on the right thread? I missed the connection.

Maybe I did. I think it had to do with georgesbluegirl conversation.

LT


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Posted

Hummulawha?

:huh:


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Posted
Hummulawha?

:huh:

Sorry I meant "didn 't"

LT

Guest shadow2b
Posted
-My understanding is that private interpretation is the opposite of public interpretation. So I read the passage to mean that scriptural prophecies are meant for public interpretation (everyone has to agree what it means), or no interpretation (it means what it means, plain and simple), but not private interpretation (one's own particular interpretation).

-2nd.Peter.1:vss.19.Thru.21--------

-We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take

-heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day

-star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of

-any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of

-man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 

-You are Absolutely Right--The Holy Spirit{the Author of the Book-I.E.the Bible}

-has already "Interpreted" the Bible HIMSELF & there is No Need to Try & put some man's Private Interpretation on GOD'S WORD----I.E.The Bible-----But IT does occur quite TOO Often & that is WHY the Church is in such sad shape anyhow...

- IT would be Ludicrous to think that GOD would leave the Definition of HIS WORD up to some man {Who is not too bright in the first place}& since man is A creation

made BY GOD & since GOD IS an ALL Knowing GOD--HE would necessarily Know that Man is somewhat at times Arrogant & Erroneously Thinks he is quite intelligent & IF the Interpretation of GOD'S WORD was left up to such a man it would wind up being the biggest catastrophe in the Universe Which of course GOD being THE All Knowing & Only True Intelligent Being capable of Defining HIS Own WORD would necessarily NOT leave that little chore to some ignorant--arrogant--Idiotic--

--MAN---

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