Isaiah

[AnotherTraveler]

I have been rereading Isaiah, prompted by a recent sermon from a dear friend that is a pastor, where he mentioned that Isaiah's early chapters are WOE WOE until he sees the Lord in chapter six, and then having seen the Lord, he is more positive and more of a prophet of hope and the coming salvation via Jesus Christ.

I just searched "woe" in Isaiah, and after chapter six, I find woe in chapters 10,17,18, 24, 28, 29...., so I am inclined to disagree with my friend, but it was a minor point in the message he was preaching, so I will likely never mention it to him, but I mention it here because it illustrates a simple point, being that sometimes we want something to be in the bible to validate what we think, and though we might look, we could miss what really is there because of our own preconceived ideas. Also, sometimes something is in the bible, but because we don't like it, or it is not our experience, we have a tendency to downplay it, ignore it, or even argue against it with great fervor.

The search through prophecy is very difficult because we often have already formed an opinion, having been taught by other's that we love and respect.

For whatever reason, God didn't give us a secret decoder ring that would allow us to simply dial in the answer, and so we search the scriptures (John 5:39), and also try to reason with God (Isaiah 1:18). However, when God reason's with us, usually He is calling us from sin, not trying to explain tomorrow's headlines (Isaiah 1:18).

A New Testament prophecy and command requires us to understand what most of us hold differing points of thought on, namely "Come out of her my people" (Rev 18:4).

We hold various views on who my people are, what Babylon is, and what it takes to come out. In the days when Jesus walked the earth, Israel was waiting for messiah to appear, and in our day, many in Israel are still waiting for him to appear. He will appear. (Mal 3:1) When you read verse 2 and on, you realize that some that are waiting for Him will not be so happy when He shows up. (Isaiah 58:2) They knew where (Matt 2:6), but the information was used by those in power to murder all the babies in the area trying to kill the Him.

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant. Psalms 25:14 (KJV)

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Matt 11:25-26 (KJV)

I have read a lot of prophecy commentaries, and many sermons, and many teachers, and the fact is that unless Jesus reveals, unless the Father reveals, unless the Holy Spirit reveals, we will continue o find ourselves discussing and rearranging puzzle pieces endlessly, attempting to force pieces together that may or may not belong to an entirely different picture than the one we are trying to assemble.

I think it is interesting that so much of Isaiah's prophecies spoke concerning idols, and the foolishness of them, made by men, and how idols are just taking the material that God provided for certain purposes (wood for warmth, cooking, ect Isaiah 44:19) and creating a different image intended to comfort by way of worship. It might be that we can be involved in modern day idolatry in assembling or rather mis assembling what was intended for other purposes into a different image than what God intended.

I am not trying to discourage discussions relating to prophecy, I am in fact very much in favor of them, what I am suggesting is after I have given my opinion and you have given yours, and they have given theirs, that we each of us personally seek God's help in revealing to us the truth, no matter how opposed we might be to that truth initially. The woman at the well had an opinion already formed, but when Jesus showed up, He told her all things that she had done, and in that revealing was the opening to reveal to her that He was the Christ. (John 4:29)

Otherwise, I don't think we will understand, and therefore cannot move to obey Rev 18:4

[Fez]

I have read a lot of prophecy commentaries, and many sermons, and many teachers, and the fact is that unless Jesus reveals, unless the Father reveals, unless the Holy Spirit reveals, we will continue o find ourselves discussing and rearranging puzzle pieces endlessly, attempting to force pieces together that may or may not belong to an entirely different picture than the one we are trying to assemble.

Amen!

"Convergence Theology" is a dangerous minefield that we should be wary of treading into.

When we try to converge opinion with scripture, we are from the start, working on shaky foundations....

[AnotherTraveler]

I have read a lot of prophecy commentaries, and many sermons, and many teachers, and the fact is that unless Jesus reveals, unless the Father reveals, unless the Holy Spirit reveals, we will continue o find ourselves discussing and rearranging puzzle pieces endlessly, attempting to force pieces together that may or may not belong to an entirely different picture than the one we are trying to assemble.

Amen!

"Convergence Theology" is a dangerous minefield that we should be wary of treading into.

When we try to converge opinion with scripture, we are from the start, working on shaky foundations....

And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. 22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

1 Kings 18:21-22 (KJV)

We as humans form our opinions based on something or even sometimes nothing, yet for all of us, our own opinion carries the day, and we walk according to the opinion that we believe to be truth, be it truth or not. Opinion MUST eventually conform to the scriptures, or we are in serious trouble.

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

Matt 21:28 (KJV)

[Fez]

I have read a lot of prophecy commentaries, and many sermons, and many teachers, and the fact is that unless Jesus reveals, unless the Father reveals, unless the Holy Spirit reveals, we will continue o find ourselves discussing and rearranging puzzle pieces endlessly, attempting to force pieces together that may or may not belong to an entirely different picture than the one we are trying to assemble.

Amen!

"Convergence Theology" is a dangerous minefield that we should be wary of treading into.

When we try to converge opinion with scripture, we are from the start, working on shaky foundations....

And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. 22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

1 Kings 18:21-22 (KJV)

We as humans form our opinions based on something or even sometimes nothing, yet for all of us, our own opinion carries the day, and we walk according to the opinion that we believe to be truth, be it truth or not. Opinion MUST eventually conform to the scriptures, or we are in serious trouble.

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

Matt 21:28 (KJV)

I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

Yep, and look what he did to them....

And then he ran away to a cave in the mountains because one woman said she was going to kill him.

But look what happened in the cave (it goes towards your first post)

1Ki 19:11 And he said, "Go out and stand on the mount before the LORD." And behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind tore the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.

1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper.

We need to listen for the whisper. Sometimes it is all we wiill hear. We need to be close to God to hear Him whisper.

If we stay close, and listen, and then act, or speak, the actions and words usually make more sense than if we try "shouting" our opinion over that of the whisper. Because if we do that, we will never hear....

[Guest]

.... Isaiah's early chapters are WOE WOE until he sees the Lord in chapter six, and then....

Chapter One: The LORD Is So Faithful

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Isaiah 1:9

And At The Darkest Times So True

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. Lamentations 3:22-23

And Oh So Hallelujah!

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:25-29

Amen!

>>>>>()<<<<<

A Few Months Back I Started Isaiah As I Started John...... Wow!

(I Often Read Straight Through The First Testament While Also Looping Through The Second Testament.)

[Joshua-777]

Amen.

2 Peter 1:21

21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 19:10

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God!For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

[mizzdy]

I have been rereading Isaiah, prompted by a recent sermon from a dear friend that is a pastor, where he mentioned that Isaiah's early chapters are WOE WOE until he sees the Lord in chapter six, and then having seen the Lord, he is more positive and more of a prophet of hope and the coming salvation via Jesus Christ.

I just searched "woe" in Isaiah, and after chapter six, I find woe in chapters 10,17,18, 24, 28, 29...., so I am inclined to disagree with my friend, but it was a minor point in the message he was preaching, so I will likely never mention it to him, but I mention it here because it illustrates a simple point, being that sometimes we want something to be in the bible to validate what we think, and though we might look, we could miss what really is there because of our own preconceived ideas. Also, sometimes something is in the bible, but because we don't like it, or it is not our experience, we have a tendency to downplay it, ignore it, or even argue against it with great fervor.

The search through prophecy is very difficult because we often have already formed an opinion, having been taught by other's that we love and respect.

For whatever reason, God didn't give us a secret decoder ring that would allow us to simply dial in the answer, and so we search the scriptures (John 5:39), and also try to reason with God (Isaiah 1:18). However, when God reason's with us, usually He is calling us from sin, not trying to explain tomorrow's headlines (Isaiah 1:18).

A New Testament prophecy and command requires us to understand what most of us hold differing points of thought on, namely "Come out of her my people" (Rev 18:4).

We hold various views on who my people are, what Babylon is, and what it takes to come out. In the days when Jesus walked the earth, Israel was waiting for messiah to appear, and in our day, many in Israel are still waiting for him to appear. He will appear. (Mal 3:1) When you read verse 2 and on, you realize that some that are waiting for Him will not be so happy when He shows up. (Isaiah 58:2) They knew where (Matt 2:6), but the information was used by those in power to murder all the babies in the area trying to kill the Him.

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant. Psalms 25:14 (KJV)

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Matt 11:25-26 (KJV)

I have read a lot of prophecy commentaries, and many sermons, and many teachers, and the fact is that unless Jesus reveals, unless the Father reveals, unless the Holy Spirit reveals, we will continue o find ourselves discussing and rearranging puzzle pieces endlessly, attempting to force pieces together that may or may not belong to an entirely different picture than the one we are trying to assemble.

I think it is interesting that so much of Isaiah's prophecies spoke concerning idols, and the foolishness of them, made by men, and how idols are just taking the material that God provided for certain purposes (wood for warmth, cooking, ect Isaiah 44:19) and creating a different image intended to comfort by way of worship. It might be that we can be involved in modern day idolatry in assembling or rather mis assembling what was intended for other purposes into a different image than what God intended.

I am not trying to discourage discussions relating to prophecy, I am in fact very much in favor of them, what I am suggesting is after I have given my opinion and you have given yours, and they have given theirs, that we each of us personally seek God's help in revealing to us the truth, no matter how opposed we might be to that truth initially. The woman at the well had an opinion already formed, but when Jesus showed up, He told her all things that she had done, and in that revealing was the opening to reveal to her that He was the Christ. (John 4:29)

Otherwise, I don't think we will understand, and therefore cannot move to obey Rev 18:4

I must say I do agree that none of us truly understand prophecy this side of the kingdom. I have a bit of a different take on 'come out of her my people', certainly Rev. is talking about specific point in time, the end of the age right before Yeshua returns, yet all through the bible we are told not to partake in the things pagans do, not to mix this or that, not to abide by certain teachings. So if we get to the end of the age and are still in those kinda things we are in big trouble if we haven't seen what 'they' were to start with and God is saying to His own to hurry up if you wish to come into the kingdom and not be left in the world and attached to those things. Just my nickels worth.