Interpreting The Book of Revelation

[sdktlk]

Fraught said, "Does this indicate that some things in the O.T. Scriptures are not objective facts, that they are, instead, memorable ways to preserve significant truth."

Sister, I will answer that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the person of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2Tim 3:16-17)

It is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O God."

The Lord spoke of Adam, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Noah, Lot, David, Solomon, etc. etc. Man may have had difficulty in translation in some parts that are hard to be seen by one's who are not "spiritual." But, rest assured, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." (Psa 12:6)

And, as this is a prophecy string, for those who want to participate, I will set forth this question again: in Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Timothy was refering to the OT you know that right? If we are to see prophecy we need to go back and read Gen. God said He declared the end from the beginning.

Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

Since I didn't read about all the controversy of the thread is about whats hard to understand about who these guys are? Doesn't it make sense that God would set watchers over His own? And that God sets these over us whever we gather together to teach us, guide us in all the words of God. Each church is charged with a task of either keeping something, doing something or in need of teshuvah, repentance. I see the heart attitude in the churches that speak to us.

So, to be clear, you are saying that the "stars," the "angels." are symbols standing for the overseers, the leaders, of the assemblies. Is that correct?

Scripture tells us who they are, 'the seven stars are the angels of the seven messianic communities', why is it a surprise that God sets watchers over His own? They are not symbols but real angels.

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

[OneLight]

Fraught said, "Does this indicate that some things in the O.T. Scriptures are not objective facts, that they are, instead, memorable ways to preserve significant truth."

Sister, I will answer that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the person of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2Tim 3:16-17)

It is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O God."

The Lord spoke of Adam, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Noah, Lot, David, Solomon, etc. etc. Man may have had difficulty in translation in some parts that are hard to be seen by one's who are not "spiritual." But, rest assured, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." (Psa 12:6)

And, as this is a prophecy string, for those who want to participate, I will set forth this question again: in Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Timothy was refering to the OT you know that right? If we are to see prophecy we need to go back and read Gen. God said He declared the end from the beginning.

Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

Since I didn't read about all the controversy of the thread is about whats hard to understand about who these guys are? Doesn't it make sense that God would set watchers over His own? And that God sets these over us whever we gather together to teach us, guide us in all the words of God. Each church is charged with a task of either keeping something, doing something or in need of teshuvah, repentance. I see the heart attitude in the churches that speak to us.

So, to be clear, you are saying that the "stars," the "angels." are symbols standing for the overseers, the leaders, of the assemblies. Is that correct?

Scripture tells us who they are, 'the seven stars are the angels of the seven messianic communities', why is it a surprise that God sets watchers over His own? They are not symbols but real angels.

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

Are angels not messengers? They bring His message to the church they watch over.

[sdktlk]

Fraught said, "Does this indicate that some things in the O.T. Scriptures are not objective facts, that they are, instead, memorable ways to preserve significant truth."

Sister, I will answer that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the person of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2Tim 3:16-17)

It is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O God."

The Lord spoke of Adam, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Noah, Lot, David, Solomon, etc. etc. Man may have had difficulty in translation in some parts that are hard to be seen by one's who are not "spiritual." But, rest assured, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." (Psa 12:6)

And, as this is a prophecy string, for those who want to participate, I will set forth this question again: in Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Timothy was refering to the OT you know that right? If we are to see prophecy we need to go back and read Gen. God said He declared the end from the beginning.

Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

Since I didn't read about all the controversy of the thread is about whats hard to understand about who these guys are? Doesn't it make sense that God would set watchers over His own? And that God sets these over us whever we gather together to teach us, guide us in all the words of God. Each church is charged with a task of either keeping something, doing something or in need of teshuvah, repentance. I see the heart attitude in the churches that speak to us.

So, to be clear, you are saying that the "stars," the "angels." are symbols standing for the overseers, the leaders, of the assemblies. Is that correct?

Scripture tells us who they are, 'the seven stars are the angels of the seven messianic communities', why is it a surprise that God sets watchers over His own? They are not symbols but real angels.

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

Are angels not messengers? They bring His message to the church they watch over.

Again, the letters ARE WRITTEN TO the angels. WHY WOULD THE LORD HAVE JOHN WRITE LETTERS TO CELESTIAL BEINGS?

[OneLight]

Fraught said, "Does this indicate that some things in the O.T. Scriptures are not objective facts, that they are, instead, memorable ways to preserve significant truth."

Sister, I will answer that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the person of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2Tim 3:16-17)

It is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O God."

The Lord spoke of Adam, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Noah, Lot, David, Solomon, etc. etc. Man may have had difficulty in translation in some parts that are hard to be seen by one's who are not "spiritual." But, rest assured, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." (Psa 12:6)

And, as this is a prophecy string, for those who want to participate, I will set forth this question again: in Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Timothy was refering to the OT you know that right? If we are to see prophecy we need to go back and read Gen. God said He declared the end from the beginning.

Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

Since I didn't read about all the controversy of the thread is about whats hard to understand about who these guys are? Doesn't it make sense that God would set watchers over His own? And that God sets these over us whever we gather together to teach us, guide us in all the words of God. Each church is charged with a task of either keeping something, doing something or in need of teshuvah, repentance. I see the heart attitude in the churches that speak to us.

So, to be clear, you are saying that the "stars," the "angels." are symbols standing for the overseers, the leaders, of the assemblies. Is that correct?

Scripture tells us who they are, 'the seven stars are the angels of the seven messianic communities', why is it a surprise that God sets watchers over His own? They are not symbols but real angels.

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

Are angels not messengers? They bring His message to the church they watch over.

Again, the letters ARE WRITTEN TO the angels. WHY WOULD THE LORD HAVE JOHN WRITE LETTERS TO CELESTIAL BEINGS?

Why holler at me? I can read and am not deaf nor blind. Why ask us the intentions of the Lord when He does not tell us why. Are you looking for speculation? If so, then all I can say is because He had his reasons for John to record what He said. Just because you or I don't understand them does not negate that He commanded John to do so.

[sdktlk]

Wasn't yelling at you, just thought that maybe no one could see ... that it makes no sense at all for John to write letters to celestial beings.

[mizzdy]

Fraught said, "Does this indicate that some things in the O.T. Scriptures are not objective facts, that they are, instead, memorable ways to preserve significant truth."

Sister, I will answer that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the person of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2Tim 3:16-17)

It is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O God."

The Lord spoke of Adam, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Noah, Lot, David, Solomon, etc. etc. Man may have had difficulty in translation in some parts that are hard to be seen by one's who are not "spiritual." But, rest assured, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." (Psa 12:6)

And, as this is a prophecy string, for those who want to participate, I will set forth this question again: in Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Timothy was refering to the OT you know that right? If we are to see prophecy we need to go back and read Gen. God said He declared the end from the beginning.

Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

Since I didn't read about all the controversy of the thread is about whats hard to understand about who these guys are? Doesn't it make sense that God would set watchers over His own? And that God sets these over us whever we gather together to teach us, guide us in all the words of God. Each church is charged with a task of either keeping something, doing something or in need of teshuvah, repentance. I see the heart attitude in the churches that speak to us.

So, to be clear, you are saying that the "stars," the "angels." are symbols standing for the overseers, the leaders, of the assemblies. Is that correct?

Scripture tells us who they are, 'the seven stars are the angels of the seven messianic communities', why is it a surprise that God sets watchers over His own? They are not symbols but real angels.

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

Are angels not messengers? They bring His message to the church they watch over.

Again, the letters ARE WRITTEN TO the angels. WHY WOULD THE LORD HAVE JOHN WRITE LETTERS TO CELESTIAL BEINGS?

Rev. 1:4 is a letter written by John to the seven churches of Asia, John, to the seven churches which are in Asia the letter are written to the churches, the angels, messengers are watchers over those churches. Lets read from verse 17 to 20 and see whats gotten you so worked up.

When I saw him, I fell down at his feet like a dead man. He placed his right hand upon me and said, "Don't be afraid! I am the First and Last, the Living One, I was dead but look! I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys to Death and Sh'0l. So write down what you see, both what is now and what will happen afterwards. Here is the secret of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

We start the chpt with the letters being written to the churches the angels of the churches are given charge for watching over them, so what is the big deal? why the yelling? We are told that we have watchers over us and that at the end of the age we will judge those very watchers kinda like a grade for how well they did. No mystery, no reason to yell or get upset.

[OneLight]

Wasn't yelling at you, just thought that maybe no one could see ... that it makes no sense at all for John to write letters to celestial beings.

Does it make sense to you to obey the Lord, even when you don't understand why He asks you to do something you think is out of place?

[OneLight]

Fraught said, "Does this indicate that some things in the O.T. Scriptures are not objective facts, that they are, instead, memorable ways to preserve significant truth."

Sister, I will answer that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the person of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2Tim 3:16-17)

It is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O God."

The Lord spoke of Adam, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Noah, Lot, David, Solomon, etc. etc. Man may have had difficulty in translation in some parts that are hard to be seen by one's who are not "spiritual." But, rest assured, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." (Psa 12:6)

And, as this is a prophecy string, for those who want to participate, I will set forth this question again: in Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Timothy was refering to the OT you know that right? If we are to see prophecy we need to go back and read Gen. God said He declared the end from the beginning.

Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

Since I didn't read about all the controversy of the thread is about whats hard to understand about who these guys are? Doesn't it make sense that God would set watchers over His own? And that God sets these over us whever we gather together to teach us, guide us in all the words of God. Each church is charged with a task of either keeping something, doing something or in need of teshuvah, repentance. I see the heart attitude in the churches that speak to us.

So, to be clear, you are saying that the "stars," the "angels." are symbols standing for the overseers, the leaders, of the assemblies. Is that correct?

Scripture tells us who they are, 'the seven stars are the angels of the seven messianic communities', why is it a surprise that God sets watchers over His own? They are not symbols but real angels.

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

Are angels not messengers? They bring His message to the church they watch over.

Again, the letters ARE WRITTEN TO the angels. WHY WOULD THE LORD HAVE JOHN WRITE LETTERS TO CELESTIAL BEINGS?

Rev. 1:4 is a letter written by John to the seven churches of Asia, John, to the seven churches which are in Asia the letter are written to the churches, the angels, messengers are watchers over those churches. Lets read from verse 17 to 20 and see whats gotten you so worked up.

When I saw him, I fell down at his feet like a dead man. He placed his right hand upon me and said, "Don't be afraid! I am the First and Last, the Living One, I was dead but look! I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys to Death and Sh'0l. So write down what you see, both what is now and what will happen afterwards. Here is the secret of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities. CJB

We start the chpt with the letters being written to the churches the angels of the churches are given charge for watching over them, so what is the big deal? why the yelling? We are told that we have watchers over us and that at the end of the age we will judge those very watchers kinda like a grade for how well they did. No mystery, no reason to yell or get upset.

Yet, if you continue to each letter, the beginning is "(And) (t)To the angel of the church of ......... write". I can see the confusion, but that still does not negate that it is so.

[nebula]

If you can show us the word ἄγγελος had been shown to mean something other than a spiritual being, then please do so.

[sdktlk]

If you can show us the word ἄγγελος had been shown to mean something other than a spiritual being, then please do so.

"And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger (ἄγγελος) before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee." (Mat 11:7-10) Aggelos is used here with regard to John the Baptist - a human being.

And again the Apostle Paul said, "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger (ἄγγελος) of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." (2Cor 12:7) Here Aggelos is used to describe a demonic messenger.

There are more references, but by these we can see that ἄγγελος, aggelos, can be used with respect to an angelic being, a demonic being or a human being.