~candice~ Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 And yet, here is the vow of Jacob; Ge 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely give the tenth unto you. It wasn't about his produce it was about all that God had and would be giving him and it wasn't about what percent or even currying favor. It was about sincere worship from his heart. He already had been found in the blessing and the favor. His was an act of profound worship and thankfulness, as he was struck by the numinous awe. (Candice, that's a "$5.00 word locker" usage. ) peace, Dave I accept cash in small denominations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,234 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,488 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 10, 2011 And yet, here is the vow of Jacob; Ge 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely give the tenth unto you. It wasn't about his produce it was about all that God had and would be giving him and it wasn't about what percent or even currying favor. It was about sincere worship from his heart. He already had been found in the blessing and the favor. His was an act of profound worship and thankfulness, as he was struck by the numinous awe. (Candice, that's a "$5.00 word locker" usage. ) peace, Dave I accept cash in small denominations Pennies lots and lots of pennies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) And yet, here is the vow of Jacob; Ge 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely give the tenth unto you. It wasn't about his produce it was about all that God had and would be giving him and it wasn't about what percent or even currying favor. It was about sincere worship from his heart. He already had been found in the blessing and the favor. His was an act of profound worship and thankfulness, as he was struck by the numinous awe. (Candice, that's a "$5.00 word locker" usage. ) peace, Dave I don't think the scriptural account of Jacob can be used to justify modern tithing, though. Here are some reasons. a) Just because Jacob did something doesn't mean it's a commandment that gentile Christians under the new covenant should be following so as to not rob God. As an example Jacob also wrestled with God and tricked Isaac into giving Esau's birthright to him. Jacob also had more than one wife. b) Jacob bargained with God, saying if you will be my God, I will give you a tenth of what I own. This is not a good example for Christians to follow c) The Bible doesn't state who Jacob gave this to, or whether he did this yearly, monthly or weekly. For all intents and purposes this was a once-off event. d) Also according to what would be customary for the time, Jacob's offering would most likely have been a burnt offering (i.e. agricultural produce) to God or giving the tenth to the poor with whom God normally associates ("I was hungry and you didn't feed me...") Most churches teach that the tithe should go to the church and that once tithes have been paid, offerings can be given to whomever. Is there any part of scripture where God has authorised gentile churches to be the recipients of tithed money? In other words how did the churches become the legal custodians of the tithes that congregations wish to give to God as an act of worship and gratitude? Importantly though, Jacob's account doesn't negate the clear instructions regarding tithing given in Deut 14 which, I sincerely believe, is being violated by modern teaching. How does one square modern tithing with biblical tithing? Edited January 10, 2011 by LuftWaffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 Here's another thing; Next time you need a $20.00 from the local ATM and they charge you two or three dollars to use their machine and your bank charges you another buck fifty, think about the Tithe. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 And yet, here is the vow of Jacob; Ge 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely give the tenth unto you. It wasn't about his produce it was about all that God had and would be giving him and it wasn't about what percent or even currying favor. It was about sincere worship from his heart. He already had been found in the blessing and the favor. His was an act of profound worship and thankfulness, as he was struck by the numinous awe. (Candice, that's a "$5.00 word locker" usage. ) peace, Dave Hi Dave....could you please demonstrate tithing in action in the Body of Messiah....or quote some of Paul's teaching on its relevance for Believers today....or just anything that is in context, as I struggle with what is often taught, and am mostly in agreement with the new kid on the block....welcome to Worthy by the way LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 I tithe because I want to, not because I have to. Tithing was something I started doing only after several years of being a Christian. In tbe beginning, I didn't tithe because of that thinking that "God does not need it". I do believe that the Holy Spirit convicts us, even in matters of tithing. But when I got into some financial difficulties, that's when I had the burden to tithe. It hurt, but by God's grace, that's when I learned the value of giving to God and letting Him multiply whatever is left. I tell you that in those times, not a single need was left unmet. After that, I considered tithing a privilege, and one way to honor God and putting my faith in Him that He would provide all. He always did and He still does. I plan my spending based on whatever is left after tithing, not the other way around. Some people don't tithe because they always think they won't have enough for their own needs. I think that is sad. Our great God provides. Blessings....South I am glad that your financial troubles have been resolved, however how do we determine the will of God, by scripture or by our experiences? The problem with anecdotal evidence is that in many intances it is indistinguishable from superstition. Suppose I say that ever since I started wearing blue suede shoes, my financial troubles disappeared. One can rightly say that I'm being superstitious. I can produce a list of people that struggle inspite of tithing. In fact most online discussions on tithing are started by someone who can't afford to pay tithes anymore because they've lost their job or have serious medical bills to pay. Conversely there are many congregations that are aware of what the Bible teaches regarding tithing and thus do not require tithes but instead relies on offerings by the congregation. These churches prosper. So really you have: a) Poor people who tithe b) Poor people who don't tithe c) Successful people who tithe d) Successful people who don't tithe Is there really a connection between tithing and financial security? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 And yet, here is the vow of Jacob; Ge 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely give the tenth unto you. It wasn't about his produce it was about all that God had and would be giving him and it wasn't about what percent or even currying favor. It was about sincere worship from his heart. He already had been found in the blessing and the favor. His was an act of profound worship and thankfulness, as he was struck by the numinous awe. (Candice, that's a "$5.00 word locker" usage. ) peace, Dave Hi Dave....could you please demonstrate tithing in action in the Body of Messiah....or quote some of Paul's teaching on its relevance for Believers today....or just anything that is in context, as I struggle with what is often taught, and am mostly in agreement with the new kid on the block....welcome to Worthy by the way LW. Thank you for the welcome, Bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 If it's okay with everyone I'd like to throw in my thoughts on the issue. I see tithing as a two-fold purpose: to support the Church/church and the poor. That being said, I think the 10% tithe is little more than a historical number and shouldn't be used as authoritative. Whatever we give we should be done joyfully for the glory of God and helping those less fortunate than ourselves. If giving 10% or more to the church makes you happy and glorifies God, more power to you, many people are not willing to give that much. If you have financial trouble and find it hard to dish out 10%, you probably should not give that much. Perhaps 5% would be more realistic, or even less. Also, things come up that we cannot control, like sickness or injury etc, and requires large sums of money. For those periods of time it would most likely be best to stop tithing. Once the financial crisis is over you can resume regular giving; you would probably be better off financially and be able to give more in the long run if you cut down giving during tough times. In a broader overlook on the issue, those in Christ are part of the body of Christ. And each part of a body does and specialize in something different. So too, are we each unique in what we have to offer. For some, being able to help finance the church is something they can offer up. For others, like me who are dirt poor, we can find other ways to help out. I know at my church we have members that are poor and they help out by keeping the garden and lawn maintained in their spare time. Many offer up other services, like picking up and delivering furniture and food as needed. Helping out with day care for kids, volunteering for teaching Sunday School, singing in the church choir, working on reaching out to the community, helping with youth ministry, help set up church events and so on. As long as you are giving what you have to offer and do so joyfully for the glory of God, I say don't fret about how much you give. Focus on your gifts and talents, whatever they happen to be, and run with that. May Christ be your shalom, D-9 I agree. Great post, D-9! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) If it's okay with everyone I'd like to throw in my thoughts on the issue. I see tithing as a two-fold purpose: to support the Church/church and the poor. That being said, I think the 10% tithe is little more than a historical number and shouldn't be used as authoritative. Whatever we give we should be done joyfully for the glory of God and helping those less fortunate than ourselves. If giving 10% or more to the church makes you happy and glorifies God, more power to you, many people are not willing to give that much. If you have financial trouble and find it hard to dish out 10%, you probably should not give that much. Perhaps 5% would be more realistic, or even less. Also, things come up that we cannot control, like sickness or injury etc, and requires large sums of money. For those periods of time it would most likely be best to stop tithing. Once the financial crisis is over you can resume regular giving; you would probably be better off financially and be able to give more in the long run if you cut down giving during tough times. In a broader overlook on the issue, those in Christ are part of the body of Christ. And each part of a body does and specialize in something different. So too, are we each unique in what we have to offer. For some, being able to help finance the church is something they can offer up. For others, like me who are dirt poor, we can find other ways to help out. I know at my church we have members that are poor and they help out by keeping the garden and lawn maintained in their spare time. Many offer up other services, like picking up and delivering furniture and food as needed. Helping out with day care for kids, volunteering for teaching Sunday School, singing in the church choir, working on reaching out to the community, helping with youth ministry, help set up church events and so on. As long as you are giving what you have to offer and do so joyfully for the glory of God, I say don't fret about how much you give. Focus on your gifts and talents, whatever they happen to be, and run with that. May Christ be your shalom, D-9 Hi D-9, I agree fully with what you wrote. Christians should be generous and charitable and should give joyfully. However, then it ought to be called 'giving' and not 'tithing'. Tithing is a completely different thing to giving and the major problem with referring to donations (mandatory or not) as tithes is that it opens a door for manipulation. For instance, many people are called by the Holy Spirit to donate to missionaries or certain charities, however many churches teach that tithes should go to the church first, thereafter one can make offerings to missions or charity. Another thing, that's been mentioned before is people who may not be able to afford it, but are scared of 'robbing God' or being accused of 'not having faith' etc. because of the way modern tithing is equivocated with biblical tithing. So even though I agree with you in terms of giving, I think it's important that a distinction be made between plain old charity and tithing. Edited January 13, 2011 by LuftWaffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks for the good topic. Does this mean Worthy is working again? If so, I hope my reply appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts