sdktlk Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 It is indeed representative of the Shekinan glory of the Lord. If we agree that the things in the Old Testament are a shadow of the spiritual realities which were to come then we need to discover upon what "cloud" will this glory rest. Who is being spoken of in Isa 60:1 where it is written, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee." ?? The cloud resting on upon people does not make the cloud the people. The cloud is the Glory, and it does not have to rest on anyone. I guess I'm up against it but the Lord poses a question to us at the end of this discourse in Isaiah, "Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?" (Isa 60:8) This is a question that would seem to need addressing. as it is the Lord who has asked us for the answer. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Isaiah 60 speaks of the returning of the children of Israel to the land of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 I started this discussion in the hopes of getting us to try and discover the significance of "cloud" and "clouds" in the New Testament, as the words are used quite alot and do indeed have relevance to our seeing the Glory of God. But, as I have been unable to cause genuine interest in this question i suppose I will leave well enough alone. Yours in Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2011 Oops. Messed up. Read what I was trying to post below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I started this discussion in the hopes of getting us to try and discover the significance of "cloud" and "clouds" in the New Testament, A new Covenant does not change the nature of God nor what accompanies Him nor the previous ways He has revealed Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2011 You know, it occurs to me, about the two men from the first chapter of Acts who speak to the disciples after Jesus had just gone up to heaven - if these two men are, not angels as is usually stated, but from among the group of saints who were raised when Jesus was raised, a group who, according to what has been put forth in this thread, had just gone up to heaven with Jesus - then poor guys! They just got left behind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted January 4, 2011 UFO's quite often cloak themselves in the clouds...... they are just hiding thier firey chariots so as not to freak out the ground folk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 5, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2011 I started this discussion in the hopes of getting us to try and discover the significance of "cloud" and "clouds" in the New Testament, as the words are used quite alot and do indeed have relevance to our seeing the Glory of God. But, as I have been unable to cause genuine interest in this question i suppose I will leave well enough alone. Yours in Christ Sincerely, Aren't you concerned about whether your assumptions are correct or not? Folks here aren't trying to deride you or chide your point. They are seeking reproof from the Word and thus far haven't been given substantial reproof to agree with your assertions about clouds in the New Testament dear brother. You talked about being a Berean. What made the Bereans more noble is that they would go home and study the Word for reproof to see whether what Paul was Preaching conflicted with the Word of God. We're just trying to examine what it is that your saying for Truth by exposing it to the Light of Truth. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted January 5, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2011 I started this discussion in the hopes of getting us to try and discover the significance of "cloud" and "clouds" in the New Testament, as the words are used quite alot and do indeed have relevance to our seeing the Glory of God. But, as I have been unable to cause genuine interest in this question i suppose I will leave well enough alone. Yours in Christ Ahhhh don't give up laddie, it's an interesting theory, but nothing of what you have introduced seems to hold water yet...and I am frustrated, because I thought this little study might answer one of those questions I never thought I would get light on until I was bodily ressurected myself. You don't honestly think all those re-animated bodies hung around during the weeks before Jesus ascended into Heaven...and then went up with Him, but it was worded ambiguously just so we wouldn't really grasp what happened through an eye-witness account....very very weak. Clouds, crowds, people 2+2=5. You've certainly aroused interest friend...just not very convincing so far....but why not go with the flow, and pursue some things that have been thrown up as a result of your interesting speculation. Dave... I don't think the text quite indicates that the people to whom the ressurected corpses appeared, actually knew or even could recognise the people...and when you think of how Lazarus was covered in wrappings etc...many of these could be decomposed and look something like a scene from 'The Mummy'. Matt 27: 52 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many NASB It is also interesting to realise that they were probably raised from communal caves in the side of hills surrounding Jerusalem, and didn't necessarily have to roll stones away, or break out of sepulchres...as it indicates that they were opened supernaturally. The main thing that gets my interest, is that in whatever state they were, they would have been ceremonially unclean, and yet they entered Jerusalem, and probably upset a huge bunch of people and put an end to their Shabbat preparations. I also believe this event was probably a prophetic indicator, although through what Old Covenant reference I have yet to discover....it could just show that death had been conquered. Matt 27:52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. KJV It doesn't have the sense of full bodily ressurection, and I suppose it is quite possible that after these corpses had done their thing, they went back to their catacombs, and caves....I can't see anyone giving them a bed for the night, or them hanging around chatting in small groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 5, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2011 I started this discussion in the hopes of getting us to try and discover the significance of "cloud" and "clouds" in the New Testament, as the words are used quite alot and do indeed have relevance to our seeing the Glory of God. But, as I have been unable to cause genuine interest in this question i suppose I will leave well enough alone. Yours in Christ Ahhhh don't give up laddie, it's an interesting theory, but nothing of what you have introduced seems to hold water yet...and I am frustrated, because I thought this little study might answer one of those questions I never thought I would get light on until I was bodily ressurected myself. You don't honestly think all those re-animated bodies hung around during the weeks before Jesus ascended into Heaven...and then went up with Him, but it was worded ambiguously just so we wouldn't really grasp what happened through an eye-witness account....very very weak. Clouds, crowds, people 2+2=5. You've certainly aroused interest friend...just not very convincing so far....but why not go with the flow, and pursue some things that have been thrown up as a result of your interesting speculation. Dave... I don't think the text quite indicates that the people to whom the ressurected corpses appeared, actually knew or even could recognise the people...and when you think of how Lazarus was covered in wrappings etc...many of these could be decomposed and look something like a scene from 'The Mummy'. Matt 27: 52 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many NASB It is also interesting to realise that they were probably raised from communal caves in the side of hills surrounding Jerusalem, and didn't necessarily have to roll stones away, or break out of sepulchres...as it indicates that they were opened supernaturally. The main thing that gets my interest, is that in whatever state they were, they would have been ceremonially unclean, and yet they entered Jerusalem, and probably upset a huge bunch of people and put an end to their Shabbat preparations. I also believe this event was probably a prophetic indicator, although through what Old Covenant reference I have yet to discover....it could just show that death had been conquered. Matt 27:52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. KJV It doesn't have the sense of full bodily ressurection, and I suppose it is quite possible that after these corpses had done their thing, they went back to their catacombs, and caves....I can't see anyone giving them a bed for the night, or them hanging around chatting in small groups. Brother, I'm not sure I follow you at all. I'm almost certain that rotting stinking corpses weren't roaming around Jerusalem. Lazarus was still in his Grave cloth and had to be released from the bounds of death. Showing that the Lord had not only victory over the grave but hell and death itself. He was no longer bound. Joh 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a cloth. Jesus said unto them, Loose him, and let him go. There is not indication that Lazarus remained a stinking rotting corpse. He was immediately delivered unto his family whole and well. I'm sure there were quite a few who were astonished at this for some time and may even have held some superstition about being around him, but not those whom knew the Lord. I believe that in the Matthew 27 event and ressurection that the tombs quite possibly were opened by the massive earthquake that took place. Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks were split; Mt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints that slept arose, The graves were rent open at the time of the earthquake but the bodies did not rise until after the Lord's Ressurection itself. We know this happened 3 day's later. Mt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. If His ressurection was full and complete why should we believe that theirs wasn't either, especially since this was a sign of His ressurection? We aren't told where the bodies or people went after this. We can only speculate at this point. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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