Self defense

[Guest shiloh357]

What I see in a good many posts, is the issue of self defense is getting confused with persecution. We are not to retaliate against peresuction. We are also not to retaliate or take revenge against those who tell lies about us, who seek to defame us to others, who say horrible things to our face. This cannot be more true when dealing with nonbelievers.

When Jesus said to turn the other cheek in Matt. 5, he was speaking to those kinds of issues. Slapping someone on the cheek was, in that culture, an insult to someone's honor. It was not an act of physical violence. When the Lord tells us not to resist evil in the same chapter, HE is speaking within the context of not taking revenge, and seeking to enact our OWN justice. We are not to defend our "honor" when it is insulted by others.

When we suffer persecution, we should not retaliate, rather rejoice that we have been counted worthy to be persecuted for the sake of Christ. We know that the world hates Jesus, and they will hate us on His account. The world hated Him first, and so it should come as any surprise when they insult us, and seek to defame us for our faith in the Lord. Therefore we are not repay evil for evil, but rather we are to respond to evil with good.

Biblical nonresistence applies only to not taking revenge or not seeking to retaliate against insults or slurs.

Having said all of that, self defense and the defense of one's family is not revenge. Therefore the Scriptures that apply to nonresistence do not apply to this issue. Most of the nonresistence Scriptures I have seen being employed in this thread are being ripped from their context and applied to an issue they are not addressing.

To advocate the notion that we should not resist those who seek to do us and our families bodily harm devalues the life of the victim. To refuse to defend one's family from danger is immoral.

To refuse to lift a finger to help a child in danger, is as bad as if you were the one actually committing the atrocity. Nowhere in Scripture are we exhorted to allow someone to slaughter ourselves or loved ones.

[Guest shadow2b]

-SHILOH--- YUPP-----I---CONCUR---- Wholeheartedly- :hug:

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[Guest shiloh357]

Here is an interesting article by Joseph Farah on the issue of self-defense and the Bible.

The Bible and self-defense

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[Guest idied2]

Steven didn't run away. Or fight back.

Ac 7:59

And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

CHRIST'S teaching on the subject

Mt 5:39

But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Mt 26:52

But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Joh 18:11

So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"

Which kindom are you promoting?

Joh 18:36

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest shiloh357]

Steven didn't run away. Or fight back.

Ac 7:59

And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

CHRIST'S teaching on the subject

Mt 5:39

But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Mt 26:52

But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Joh 18:11

So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"

Which kindom are you promoting?

Joh 18:36

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

Self defense is not "promoting a Kingdom."

Most of the verses you are using do not speak to the issue of Self defense, but rather to the issue of persecution. You are confusing issues. Steven was suffering persecution.

You should be careful using Jesus as an example. Jesus had a particular purpose to fulfill. He had to go to the cross. Peter's attempt to defend Jesus was in opposition to that purpose. In a different dynamic such as the defense of his wife, Peter's actions would have been justifiable.

Nowhere does God speak against defending one's life or the life of one's family from legitimate danger. In fact, if one would permit someone to hurt their wife or family because they think it is "spiritual" to not rise up in self defense, that person should suffer the same fate as the criminal. They should be tried and convicted as an accomplice, and be assigned the same punishment, even the death penalty if their family members died as a result of their inaction.

[alecia]

Tell it, shiloh! :t:

[Big Steve]

Well I knew I shouldn't have posted this when I had to leave for work last night. I missed alot!

Kittyjo and shiloh - great posts!

I have to agree that self-defense and persecution are getting mixed up here from what I read.

It would not be morally right to stand by and do nothing if the situation presented itself and your family was in danger. I deal with many violent people while I'm on duty, and I can't think of any of them that would stop an assault because of any words I might speak. It always requires action.

[senerhu]

Dude im going to defend myself if some one is going to kill me. if you think about it whould you just let someone walk up to you and kill you with out a fight? i mean come on...

You pose a hypothetical situation. Hypotheticals cannot be answered because they don't exist.

True story.(abriviated)

A man was walking late at night when he noticed three men coming toward him from out of the shadows. He stopped and the three told him to give them all his money. One had a knife. The man said, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me."(1John 5:8) The 3 said, "What did you say?" and he repeted, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me." The robbers said Oh and left.

LT

True story...A man was walking late at night when he noticed three men coming toward him from out of the shadows. He stopped and the three told him to give them all his money. One had a knife. The man said, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me."(1John 5:8) The 3 said, "What did you say?" and he repeted, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me." The robbers laughed and said "give me your credit cards too.

[Honey]

It says in the ot thou shall not kill!

[larryt]

Dude im going to defend myself if some one is going to kill me. if you think about it whould you just let someone walk up to you and kill you with out a fight? i mean come on...

You pose a hypothetical situation. Hypotheticals cannot be answered because they don't exist.

True story.(abriviated)

A man was walking late at night when he noticed three men coming toward him from out of the shadows. He stopped and the three told him to give them all his money. One had a knife. The man said, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me."(1John 5:8) The 3 said, "What did you say?" and he repeted, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me." The robbers said Oh and left.

LT

True story...A man was walking late at night when he noticed three men coming toward him from out of the shadows. He stopped and the three told him to give them all his money. One had a knife. The man said, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me."(1John 5:8) The 3 said, "What did you say?" and he repeted, "I belong to Jesus Christ and the evil one cannot touch me." The robbers laughed and said "give me your credit cards too.

You do err not knowing the scriptures nor the Power of God.

Those who know not what to say alway resort to name calling, innuendo, diversion, and lies.