Are you saved by grace alone?

[tsth]

I'm curious?

[Knight]

Luke, tsth,

Good dialouge. Here's my $0.20:

There are three parts to our salvation once we come to Christ.

1) Justification - This is what we frequently mean when we use the term salvation. We are cleansed of our sins and justified before God as righteous. The thief on the cross was justified by Christ. This step is instantaneous.

2) Sanctification - Through the power of the Holy Spirit we are transformed into a new creature. This is the process whereby we turn from our sinful ways. This takes place over time. (Sometimes a lot of time.)

3) Glorification - This is the final step when we meet our savior face-to-face and live with Him in heaven. All sin is wiped out at this time.

Once we are Justified our Glorification is assured. The Santification process involves the good deeds you mentioned before. Good deeds serve one purpose to God when done by His people. They are a testament to His power and His Glory. They are tools of ministry used to spread the gospel.

We do not choose God He chooses us by His sovriegn Grace. We are called to believe through faith and repentance. But how can that happen if He is not working in our heart.

[Guest suzie]

That was a good $.20 worth knight..... if I may add onto that just a bit.  When we are justified, as knight said, we are "saved" and are heirs to the kingdom. "We are family"  as the song goes....We die to self, and Christ is now in us through the Holy Spirit.  We now have Christ as the center of our world and our selfishness is being pushed outside.  Not all of this is instantaneous.  God can "take" sinful desires away from us in a flash, and he does at  times, although, most of the time our desire becomes to do as God desires for our life and we have to turn away from sin....the Holy Spirit is our helper and guide, and this may take some "action" and a few falls before we are able to trust only God for all things.  The more steps we take toward God and away from self, the more we become like Him.  We can stay baby Christians all our lives and still enter the kingdom, for nothing we do "earns" us a place in heaven, but we will still stand accountable to God for how we lived out our life.

[Knight]

That was a good $.20 worth knight..... if I may add onto that just a bit.

[tsth]

Let me pose a question for discussion:

If someone accepts Christ on their deathbed (We assume that this is genuine) are they still saved? What is the timetable on Sanctification?

I think that is in essence what Luke was using in talking about the thief on the cross.  That was pretty much a "deathbed" experience.

But, what I am concerned about most with this particular issue about grace, is that it does mislead some into believing that they are "ok in salvation" they're just living the way they are, because they have not been sanctified, when in truth, they have not come to a true place of repentance and salvation at all.  I also believe that is why we have a whole nation full of people professing to be Christians, yet by looking at our actions, the fruit is not there, nor will it ever be, because they have been told some misleading things, when what they need is the truth about sin and repentance.

:butbut:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Mark 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Mr 6:12 -

So they went out and preached that people should repent.

Lu 13:3 -

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 9:13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Matthitjah]

"TKO" Knight, Suzie. We are in one hundred percent agreement.

Tsth I think your misunderstanding me. I don't believe that Jesus calls us to do penance. I think you might think that. The good works you do after grace are for his glory. Not for correction of your sin. Your sin was bought and paid for by the greatest act ever.I know I personally struggle to sin no more. I can't help it my flesh is weak. I'm a work in progress.

Belief does move we are in agreement on that. That's twice we agree. We probably agree on a lot. Yet I have an unbelieving brother (familial). He's hard hearted and say's G-d is a hypocrite. He's afraid like I was ,I think ,that G-d will require more of him than he can give. I've told him all G-d wants is your belief he will do the rest. That is bring you along to where he wants you. So if the grace Jesus offers is not complete then my brother would be right.

There is a difference between repent and do penance.

[Q]Acts 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. [/Q]

Repent means feel sorrow for what you have done or not done.In this case sorrow for your sins for they have brought you low.

Turn to G-d ask forgiveness.

Do works befitting of your sorrow. Or to show your joy at his forgiveness.Spread Love and the gospel.

Penance on the other hand would be to submit to a penalty for the sin. The penaltys been paid.

He forgave many and still does. I recall and I'm not perfect at scripture. That he always said "Sin no more" or "Thy sins are forgiven".

Yet I don't recall him saying go roll this stone for eternity as penance.

Peace be with you. Sister.

I'm new here and I would like to say its nice to be in a like minded atmosphere. To engage in these discussions we have much to learn from each other. We can disagree, Yet remember we are bound by undying Love. I've seen some uncivil posts. I promise to be civil.

Amen

[Matthitjah]

One more thing i don't think i phrased this right.

[tsth]

Dear Luke,

I appreciate your civility, but I'm afraid I have said just about all I can say, and yet I'm afraid I am still very misunderstood.  You can only go so far in 1 topic before just sounding redundant.  

But I will just end with this, which is my main point, which by the way, has nothing to do with penance, only with the Word of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 1:14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Mr 6:12 -

So they went out and preached that people should repent.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[jesusson]

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--  

SALVATION IS BY FAITH ALONE..,  :thumb: