Un-contradicting the Bible.

[ayin jade]

How many Gods are there?

Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord."

vs.

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image."

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil."

I John 5:7 "And there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

It does no good to claim that "Let us" is the magisterial "we." Such usage implies inclusivity of all authorities under a king's leadership. Invoking the Trinity solves nothing because such an idea is more contradictory than the problem it attempts to solve.

One God, 3 persons. "Let us make" is sensible for a trinity. "One Lord" is also sensible for the trinity. No contradiction at all.

(I wonder if it is even worth it to refute this for him. He has made up his mind that it is a contradiction and nothing will shake that from him, short of God's intervention.)

[ayin jade]

Are we all sinners?

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

(adding this one too) Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

That verse relies on Psalm 14:1-3

Psa 14:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, There is no God! They acted corruptly; they have done abominable works, there is none who does good.

Psa 14:2 Jehovah looked down from Heaven on the sons of men, to see if there were any who understood and sought God.

Psa 14:3 All have gone aside, together they are filthy; there is none who does good, no, not one.

and Psalm 53:1-3

Psa 53:1 To the Chief Musician on Mahalath. A contemplation. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They acted corruptly, and have worked out abominable wickedness; there is not one doing good.

Psa 53:2 God looked down from Heaven on the sons of mankind to see if any was discerning, who was seeking God.

Psa 53:3 Every one has turned away; they have altogether become filthy; not one is doing good, no, not even one.

Now, for the supposed contradicting verses that show some were righteous.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job. And that man was perfect and upright, and one who feared God and turned aside from evil

The word

[ayin jade]

Are we saved through works?

Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

Ok, This is true.

Jam 2:24  You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Then it talks about works. Works are the result of our faith, the commandment by Jesus to love our neighbor as ourselves, to take care of others. A preceeding verse sums that up. Jam 2:17 Even so, if it does not have works, faith is dead, being by itself.

Faith without works, without that effect of loving our neighbor, is empty. Our changed lives in Christ will produce fruit.

Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."

This is before Jesus

[ayin jade]

(Taking break now)

[ayin jade]

Shall we call people names?

Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking]

vs.

Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking]

Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

Really this one is fairly trivial I think. The verses in Matthew refer to making judgements. Jesus warns us not to make judgements like that, then does so Himself later on. Since Jesus is the Son of God, part of the trinity, then as God, He can make those judgements, where we humans, equally flawed, cant make them. This so called contradiction might be better titled making judgements, not calling people names.

Fool is used in psalm 14 as a general statement, not one aimed at specific person or persons as is the case in the verses in Matthew. This was also before Jesus, whom pointed out the seriousness of using those words towards a specific person.

(Now taking break.)

[ayin jade]

Was Jesus trustworthy?

John 8:14 "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true."

vs.

John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

"Record" and "witness" in the above verses are the same Greek word (martyria).

This critic needs to read the verses in context. Clearly both say the same thing: that God the Father bears testimony that Jesus is who He is. This refered to the tradition that for something to be true, it needed more than one witness (John 5:31) No contradiction when read in context.

Joh 8:13 Therefore the Pharisees said to Him, You bear record concerning yourself; your witness is not true.

Joh 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, Though I bear record concerning Myself, My witness is true. For I know from where I came, and where I go. But you do not know from where I came, and where I go.

Joh 8:15 You judge after the flesh, I judge no one.

Joh 8:16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent Me.

Joh 8:17 It is also written in your Law that the testimony of two men is true.

Joh 8:18 I am one who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness concerning Me.

Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.

Joh 5:32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true.

Joh 5:33 You sent to John, and he bore witness to the truth.

Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John, for the works which the Father has given Me that I should finish them, the works which I do themselves witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.

Joh 5:37 And He sending Me, the Father Himself, has borne witness of Me. Neither have you heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape.

[ayin jade]

Shall we call people names?

Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking]

vs.

Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking]

Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

Interestingly I also found something in a reference book. Technically Matt 5:22 referenced a brother. and given Psalm 14:1, if you call a brother fool, then you are in essence calling him unsaved. Since Jesus knew who was saved, and who wasnt, He could call people fools. Food for thought on this one.

Comments on this one?

[ayin jade]

Ok, calling it quits for now, Im all worn out and wanting sleep. I hope this helps you. I may do more later today.

[Guest yod]

Let "us" go down...in Genesis

The word for God in most of the OT is "Elohim" which literally means "judges". Anytime you see "im" at the end of a hebrew word it is plural....yet this is the word for "one"

Deut 6:4

"hear O Israel the Lord our God, the LORD is One (echad) "

How can this be? Easy....

When man and wife marry they become "one" (echad) and so this is more evidence of the triune nature of God.

Your friend is trying to judge God? He needs a lot more information to make that kind of judgement! Most of the contradictions he has brought up can be explained by understanding the original languages, the context of the statement, and the culture of the times. That's really all you need to tell him.

If you take a few sentences out of any book, you can force contradictory statements.

When Jesus talked about calling your brother a fool, He was speaking to the intent of the heart. Just like lusting after a woman is committing adultery, hating your brother is likened to murder in His statement. It's not about calling someone names...it's about hatred.

Again...this verse was taken out of context by your friend

I was an atheist who found the Lord by researching these contradictions. I had a red notebook with ALL of these and more. Over time and study these things all explained themselves but that was 15 years ago now.

Don't make it too easy for your friend. He needs to find out for himself or he will never believe it.

[Pentecost]

Thanks all! This is great! I have coppied several of your ancers, and have gotten this first responce:

Considering that there are 3 different variants of English with varying rules which contain many exceptions I think I'd rather go with the old form which has only really changed in the number of words, the form of articles, writing style, and grammar.

QUOTE 

Since Jesus is the Son of God, part of the trinity, then as God, He can make those judgements, where we humans, equally flawed, cant make them.

And yet Jesus was at one time human, which means he too was flawed and couldn't make those judgements.

Also if imperfections exist in men then the creator, God, made an error by allowing such flaws. If he purposely did so then why? Essentially didn't the flaws cause God to have to exert his power to man as he does in the Bible? Without such flaws there would be no need for questions, for faith, or even for a separate world outside Eden.

As my own little addition to this discussion I note that the Bible is based on a single assumpion, that there is an omnipotent being, God, who created Man. Without this assumption, the Bible and religion as a whole loses any real meaning.

As to any responses based on faith, I've been there and it proved little to me.

And Kerby, Schimmy said explain not refute. Your many, many posts only refute, not explain.

Note, I go by Kerby on this board)