Who is Jesus?

[Matthitjah]

Yes, you are quite right. I like your passion and zeal.

Did any of them forgive men their sins? Make the blind to see? Rise from the dead?

I'm not trying to challenge you. I'm trying to challenge your perspective.

Right. I'm sure many of these people claimed to be "miracle workers" of some kind. There were a few gods in ancient Greek religion that claimed to be miracle healers (including raising people from the dead).

If Jesus is a Righteous Dude then He certainly wouldn't have equated Himself with God. I mean if His teachings are worthy of following there must be some substance to the man. However, we can't just examine the parts of what He said that we can agree with logically. To be intellectually honest we must give the whole man and His whole witness an examination whether it curls our toes or not. Especially when His claims are so bombastic.

Note to Candice; $5.00, Kachinga!

The man is obviously a liar, a lunatic, or He holds the Truth. If one part of what He's said doesn't hold water then we must discard the rest because He spoke of being God in the flesh and He spoke crazy things like this;

Joh 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Joh 6:54

Whosoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:55

For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

What's your take?

peace,

Dave

He seems to be saying, in a poetic way, that he is the only real nourishment man needs for salvation. Once they start "feeding on him" or following him, they will have eternal life.

Did any of these others have the goods? There are verifiable first hand accounts admissable in a court of Law of Christ's miracles and His Ressurection. Were not talking Greek myths here. Let's not focus on those who haven't lived up to their claims. Jesus Christ claimed to be the eternal "I AM" in the flesh. Not just a messenger boy, but the very essence of God Himself. He said that He came down from heaven.

He forgave men their sins and promised them eternal life. There's nothing worthy of following in His Words or deeds if He's a liar. In fact, He would be the worst sort of madman on par with the worst madmen in the history of the world in that case. Yet, you've said that you agree with His sentiments on the Peacemakers being blessed.

So, liar, lunatic, or holder of the Truth? That's the thing about Jesus. You cannot just discount the Bombasity of His claims. If any of them have merit then we must examine them all. If they all hold water then there are lasting and eternal consequences to what we do with Him.

We either Kiss Him or cast Him off unto the ash heap of History.

peace,

Dave

[808state]

Did any of these others have the goods? There are verifiable first hand accounts admissable in a court of Law of Christ's miracles and His Ressurection. Were not talking Greek myths here. Let's not focus on those who haven't lived up to their claims. Jesus Christ claimed to be the eternal "I AM" in the flesh. Not just a messenger boy, but the very essence of God Himself. He said that He came down from heaven.

Could you point me in the direction of verifiable first hand accounts?

He forgave men their sins and promised them eternal life. There's nothing worthy of following in His Words or deeds if He's a liar. In fact, He would be the worst sort of madman on par with the worst madmen in the history of the world in that case. Yet, you've said that you agree with His sentiments on the Peacemakers being blessed.

So, liar, lunatic, or holder of the Truth? That's the thing about Jesus. You cannot just discount the Bombasity of His claims. If any of them have merit then we must examine them all. If they all hold water then there are lasting and eternal consequences to what we do with Him.

We either Kiss Him or cast Him off unto the ash heap of History.

peace,

Dave

Well, there are a lot of possibilities with the story of Jesus. The writers of the Bible could have "fleshed-out" his character a bit, if you know what I mean. It's hard to say.

Liars and lunatics can still have something worthy to say. Also, If Jesus did say everything the Bible says he did, we don't know what his motives were.

[Believer112]

Yes, you are quite right. I like your passion and zeal.

Did any of them forgive men their sins? Make the blind to see? Rise from the dead?

I'm not trying to challenge you. I'm trying to challenge your perspective.

Right. I'm sure many of these people claimed to be "miracle workers" of some kind. There were a few gods in ancient Greek religion that claimed to be miracle healers (including raising people from the dead).

If Jesus is a Righteous Dude then He certainly wouldn't have equated Himself with God. I mean if His teachings are worthy of following there must be some substance to the man. However, we can't just examine the parts of what He said that we can agree with logically. To be intellectually honest we must give the whole man and His whole witness an examination whether it curls our toes or not. Especially when His claims are so bombastic.

Note to Candice; $5.00, Kachinga!

The man is obviously a liar, a lunatic, or He holds the Truth. If one part of what He's said doesn't hold water then we must discard the rest because He spoke of being God in the flesh and He spoke crazy things like this;

Joh 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Joh 6:54

Whosoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:55

For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

What's your take?

peace,

Dave

He seems to be saying, in a poetic way, that he is the only real nourishment man needs for salvation. Once they start "feeding on him" or following him, they will have eternal life.

Did any of these others have the goods? There are verifiable first hand accounts admissable in a court of Law of Christ's miracles and His Ressurection. Were not talking Greek myths here. Let's not focus on those who haven't lived up to their claims. Jesus Christ claimed to be the eternal "I AM" in the flesh. Not just a messenger boy, but the very essence of God Himself. He said that He came down from heaven.

He forgave men their sins and promised them eternal life. There's nothing worthy of following in His Words or deeds if He's a liar. In fact, He would be the worst sort of madman on par with the worst madmen in the history of the world in that case. Yet, you've said that you agree with His sentiments on the Peacemakers being blessed.

So, liar, lunatic, or holder of the Truth? That's the thing about Jesus. You cannot just discount the Bombasity of His claims. If any of them have merit then we must examine them all. If they all hold water then there are lasting and eternal consequences to what we do with Him.

We either Kiss Him or cast Him off unto the ash heap of History.

peace,

Dave

Being a new Christian, God shows me revalations of His love daily. I casted God off while doing drugs and alcohol. The world changed when my Granddaughter was born. I wanted to quit drinking deperately but the best I could do was two weeks. I wanted a good relationship with my grandaughter because I ruined my relationship with my kids. I finally asked God to come into my life and help me. It's unexplainable but He started guiding my path. With all this said i believe God does miricles today.

Your right

We either Kiss Him or cast Him off unto the ash heap of History

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, there are a lot of possibilities with the story of Jesus. The writers of the Bible could have "fleshed-out" his character a bit, if you know what I mean. It's hard to say.

When you say "writers" who are you referring to?

Liars and lunatics can still have something worthy to say.

Really?? Like who?

Also, If Jesus did say everything the Bible says he did, we don't know what his motives were.

Actually, if you take time to read the text, He is very up front about His "motives." Jesus did not teach in secret. He was always out in the open, among the people and spoke plainly that He had come to rescue mankind from sin. I don't know how anyone could miss His motives unless they just don't read the text.

Right. I'm sure many of these people claimed to be "miracle workers" of some kind.

Like who? Buddha never made that claim, Mohammed never made that claim. In fact, Jesus made claims beyond being a miracle worker. Jesus claimed to be eternal life and the ONLY way to the Father. He claimed to be the Son of God and demonstrated His deity over and over.

You cannot even begin to compare the audacity of Jesus' claims to those of mere religious teachers.

There were a few gods in ancient Greek religion that claimed to be miracle healers (including raising people from the dead).

Again, no real comparison. The Greek gods were simply gods made after man's image. They were selfish, vindictive, impulsive, fickle, and shared many other human foibles.

Jesus, on the other hand, never performed a miracle for His own benefit. He never sought revenge and while He was critical of His enemies, He was at the same time willing to lay down His life to save the very people who hated Him and wanted Him dead. So, there is no viable comparison between Jesus and the pagan gods.

[Guest]

What Can A Man Give?

What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me?

I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. Psalms 116:12-13

____________

Did any of these others have the goods? There are verifiable first hand accounts admissable in a court of Law of Christ's miracles and His Ressurection. Were not talking Greek myths here.....

Could you point me in the direction of verifiable first hand accounts?....

He forgave men their sins and promised them eternal life. There's nothing worthy of following in His Words or deeds if He's a liar. In fact, He would be the worst sort of madman on par with the worst madmen in the history of the world in that case.

So, liar, lunatic, or holder of the Truth? That's the thing about Jesus. You cannot just discount the Bombasity of His claims. If any of them have merit then we must examine them all. If they all hold water then there are lasting and eternal consequences to what we do with Him.

We either Kiss Him or cast Him off unto the ash heap of History"

peace,

Dave....

Well, there are a lot of possibilities with the story of Jesus. The writers of the Bible could have "fleshed-out" his character a bit, if you know what I mean. It's hard to say.

Liars and lunatics can still have something worthy to say. Also, If Jesus did say everything the Bible says he did, we don't know what his motives were....

First

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

Hand Accounts

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 1 John 1:1

Are Found From Genesis 0ne: One

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

To Revelation Twenty-Two: Twenty

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20

And Are Clearly Verifiable By Tasting

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Psalms 34:8

Still Most Will Not Eat

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

And Believe

Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word. Psalms 119:169

____________

The LORD Jesus Christ's Motives Are Crystal Clear Starting From His Motive For The First Creation

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

To His Motive For The Pouring Out Of His Holy Blood

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

To The New Creation Shortly To Come

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1

With Eternal Fellowship

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Revelation 22:2-4

With Family

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

It Is Love

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8

You See

____________

Can You Hear Him Now?

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

No? Call Out

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

In His Holy Name

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:13-14

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[808state]

When you say "writers" who are you referring to?

Matthew, John, Mark, Luke, etc. Assuming these were infact the men that actually wrote the New Testament. It seems a bit unclear.

Really?? Like who?

I would say that most people have lied at some point in there life so I don't know if it's that unbelievable that someone who has lied has also had something worthy to say. I mean, look at politicians. As far as lunatics go, I think if we're just talking mentally unstable/ill, then I have met people who would fit that label that had some worthy things to say.

Actually, if you take time to read the text, He is very up front about His "motives." Jesus did not teach in secret. He was always out in the open, among the people and spoke plainly that He had come to rescue mankind from sin. I don't know how anyone could miss His motives unless they just don't read the text.

I understand what the Bible says his motives are. What I'm saying is, say he was a liar, we don't know why he lied, so it isn't as cut and dry as either he was a "madman" or he was the son of God.

Like who? Buddha never made that claim, Mohammed never made that claim. In fact, Jesus made claims beyond being a miracle worker. Jesus claimed to be eternal life and the ONLY way to the Father. He claimed to be the Son of God and demonstrated His deity over and over.

You cannot even begin to compare the audacity of Jesus' claims to those of mere religious teachers.

Well, Muhammed did claim to be a miracle worker...

But, again, I was using Buddha and Muhammed as examples of men who claimed to have some sort of supernatural characteristic about them.

Again, no real comparison. The Greek gods were simply gods made after man's image. They were selfish, vindictive, impulsive, fickle, and shared many other human foibles.

Jesus, on the other hand, never performed a miracle for His own benefit. He never sought revenge and while He was critical of His enemies, He was at the same time willing to lay down His life to save the very people who hated Him and wanted Him dead. So, there is no viable comparison between Jesus and the pagan gods.

Right. Matthitjah asked if me to give examples of others who have claimed to be miracle healers of some kind. So, I did. I wasn't implying they were exactly like Jesus.

Understand, my point of view (which i'm sure you very much disagree with), is a little different from yours. I don't believe anyone who have claimed to perform miracles, so as far as I'm concerned, Jesus and the Greek gods are in the same boat in that regard (for now anyway).

Edited February 5, 2011 by 808state

[Matthitjah]

Could you point me in the direction of verifiable first hand accounts?

Yes;

Joh 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And as if this were not enough;

Ac 26:12

¶ Thus as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

Ac 26:13

At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them who journeyed with me.

Ac 26:14

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? it is hard for you to kick against the goads.

Ac 26:15

And I said, Who are you, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom you persecute.

Ac 26:16

But rise, and stand upon your feet: for I have appeared unto you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of these things which you have seen, and of those things in which I will appear unto you;

Ac 26:17

Delivering you from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send you,

Ac 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them who are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Ac 26:19

Therefore, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

What do you suppose Pauls motivation was in throwing away his whole life like a spent burnt offering? After all, he was a Pharisee of the highest order and destined to sit on the Religious ruling order of his day. perhaps it was fame and fortune that led him to trash his very life? Maybe it was self aggrandizment?

Men do all sorts of things but there's always a selfish motivation behind it. However, here we have Paul standing before a trial that will send him to Rome to ulitmately die and he speaks thus to the King? To what end? To perpetrate a hoax upon the whole world? At what cost? His life? Every cowardly liar I've ever heard of or experienced covers their shame and has other men die for them.

But here's Paul;

2Ti 4:6

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

2Ti 4:7

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

The Faith he held and kept was what he testified to in the Court of Agrippa and before Festus. He experienced the risen Christ Jesus. He experienced the Gospel and it forever changed his life. It gave his life meaning and purpose and he could no longer be bought off and paid for.

You my dear friend, if I may be so bold, have longed to live this way.

Peace,

Dave

[MorningGlory]

Did any of these others have the goods? There are verifiable first hand accounts admissable in a court of Law of Christ's miracles and His Ressurection. Were not talking Greek myths here. Let's not focus on those who haven't lived up to their claims. Jesus Christ claimed to be the eternal "I AM" in the flesh. Not just a messenger boy, but the very essence of God Himself. He said that He came down from heaven.

Could you point me in the direction of verifiable first hand accounts?

He forgave men their sins and promised them eternal life. There's nothing worthy of following in His Words or deeds if He's a liar. In fact, He would be the worst sort of madman on par with the worst madmen in the history of the world in that case. Yet, you've said that you agree with His sentiments on the Peacemakers being blessed.

So, liar, lunatic, or holder of the Truth? That's the thing about Jesus. You cannot just discount the Bombasity of His claims. If any of them have merit then we must examine them all. If they all hold water then there are lasting and eternal consequences to what we do with Him.

We either Kiss Him or cast Him off unto the ash heap of History.

peace,

Dave

Well, there are a lot of possibilities with the story of Jesus. The writers of the Bible could have "fleshed-out" his character a bit, if you know what I mean. It's hard to say.

Liars and lunatics can still have something worthy to say. Also, If Jesus did say everything the Bible says he did, we don't know what his motives were.

By 'we' I assume you mean 'you' don't know what His motives were when He was on earth. Of course you don't; you are living under delusion. Believers are sure of Jesus' motives. He came to save us; He had no other agenda. I will pray for you to see the Truth, 808.

[808state]

Could you point me in the direction of verifiable first hand accounts?

Yes;

Joh 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And as if this were not enough;

Ac 26:12

[MorningGlory]

Could you point me in the direction of verifiable first hand accounts?

Yes;

Joh 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And as if this were not enough;

Ac 26:12