Is once saved always saved?

[gypc]

His sacrifice set us free from the law of sin and death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BobTriez]

there is far less security in the OSAS doctrine, IMO. if an OSASer struggles continually with a particular sin, stumbling through life, they always wonder if they were saved the last time they repented, or the time before that, or if they will really be saved this time! that's not security!

Isn't that the truth!

[gypc]

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[Guest shiloh357]

For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come-- and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

I would like to comment on this passage that was offered early in the debate.

Notice is starts by saying "it is imossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened..." why? Because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again..."

This is telling us that if you get out, you are not getting back in. Paul is demonstrating an absurdity here.

Salvation is based upon a blood covenenant. If you have ever studied blood covenenants in Scripture, they are the most serious covenants, and they are unbreakable in the sense that no one in Bible days would EVER think about breaking their blood oaths. It just did not happen. The only time you were relieved of your covenant responsibilities was the day of your death. If you made a blood covenant were obligated to fulfill your oath. That is why God chose THAT kind of covenant to make with Abraham. It would demonstrate to Abraham how serious he was. You can look up God's blood covenant with Abraham in Gen. 15.

Now what does that have to do with Hebrews 6:4-6? The point the writer of Hebrews is making is line with a knowledge of how blood covenants work. If you fail to meet your obligations in a blood covenant, it is over. Your former covenant partner was actually sworn to kill you and every member of your family. In Bible days, that was the penalty for blood covenant violation. You did not get to go back and make a new covenant. You did not get to start with a "clean slate."

According to how these verses are worded, if you can lose your salvation, you will not get another chance, unless Jesus comes back and dies for you again, and cuts another covenant in his blood. That is not going to happen. Jesus is not going to do that again.

God has several fail safe devices in place to hold you secure... but that is another post.

BTW, nothing that anyone has done since they got saved, has taken God by surprise. He saved each us, knowing full well, the mess we would make of our lives later on. He saved us knowing all the sins we would commit, and that says alot. Why would he save us just to throw us away when we mess up? That is not grace.

[Guest Called]

If you love your Father you won't. You will desire to be with Him, long for Him, recognize your hopelessness without Him and return to Him. It's in your blood....or more importantly..it's in His. 

True, but it does happen....it happened to me If I had died a few years ago, I'd be in hell right now....and I'd be in hell because I believed in OSAS at the time ( and I was saved prior to my sinful lifestyle I chose to partake in ). Not to be to direct here ? But the Bible is meant to scare the hell out of us...literally. Sometimes we need to hear the brutal truth to get us to come around and - here's the key word - REPENT....

God bless,

Bbo

AMEN BOB!

[Guest LadyC]

Oh yes, I most certainly agree that sin seperates us from our Father. No question. Sin hinders our fellowship. But how does a son stop being his father's son? Even sin can't change his DNA.

So I can sin as I please then ? No sarcasm intended, but in essence, that's what you're saying....

God bless,

Bob

If you love your Father you won't. You will desire to be with Him, long for Him, recognize your hopelessness without Him and return to Him. It's in your blood....or more importantly..it's in His.

tess, stop and think about what you just said. you recently got yourself in a little snag out of rebellion, right? that was a sin. wanting and desiring to have a personal relationship with Christ does not guarantee we will never sin, even willfully sin, again.

we all sin. there are those who choose to repent and those who choose not to. what are the consequences of unrepented sin? unforgiveness. does God allow entrance to heaven for anyone who is still stained with unforgiven sin? not according to my bible!

regarding the dna thing... this isn't a matter of DNA. it's not science, it's not biology, it's spiritual oneness. i have two daughters. biologically, they will be my kids for life. but theoretically, they could have chosen to become emancipated, terminating any legal relationship... let me rephrase that... any relationship which would entitle them to any inheritance.

that is exactly what happens when a child of God, one who knows Him, rejects Him. he emancipates himself from God's family, thus forfieting his inheritance. and what is the inheritance of a christian? the kingdom of God.

[Kabowd]

If you love your Father you won't. You will desire to be with Him, long for Him, recognize your hopelessness without Him and return to Him. It's in your blood....or more importantly..it's in His. 

True, but it does happen....it happened to me If I had died a few years ago, I'd be in hell right now....and I'd be in hell because I believed in OSAS at the time ( and I was saved prior to my sinful lifestyle I chose to partake in ). Not to be to direct here ? But the Bible is meant to scare the hell out of us...literally. Sometimes we need to hear the brutal truth to get us to come around and - here's the key word - REPENT....

God bless,

Bbo

Fear should not motivate us, love should motivate us. Perfect love casts out all fear, and we would be without peace if we were always fearing losing our salvation.

Let's look at the example of Noah, and the picture God shows us of salvation:

In Genesis 6 God tells Noah to build the ark and gives him very specific instructions. He tells him to use gopherwood and to make it about 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. He also tells him to use "pitch" to cover it inside and out. What was pitch? I'm told it was something similar to maybe tar or sap...really thick. Because although Noah I'm sure worked hard and did his absolute best with the materials he had in order to make the ark exactly as God had instructed, being human..there is no doubt there was bound to be some gaps, some holes..some imperfections. This was the purpose of the pitch, to seal up all the cracks and act also as a water-proof type agent to protect the wood from rotting. Interestingly, the word for "pitch" means: to cover, make atonement, make reconciliation, to ransom, purge, cleanse. What I learned that was cool is that there is a similar word in the NT used to describe Jesus...

"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom (covering, atonement) for many." Mark 10:45

Jesus, in effect, was our "pitch". Yes, we are called to live a holy life...just as Noah was instructed to build this vessel that would save his family. But at the same time....God knows we are human and that we will fail at perfection. He doesn't leave us to drown in our failures and sins....He provides the covering so we don't have to be exposed and drown.

"Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered." Ps. 32:1

"You forgave the iniquity of your people and covered all their sins." Ps. 85:2

This is the beauty of grace and forgiveness, that He covers us...He wants us to do our best, to seek holiness and to repent of sin. But He knows that we will always fall short of perfection. Hence, the whole purpose of Him coming to cover us.

[Kabowd]

Sidenote: I'm walking out the door and probably won't be on again until later tonite or tomorrow, so I'm not avoiding you guys. I'll be back to respond as soon as I can.

Don't get too far ahead of me!

Ciao!

[BobTriez]

Fear should not motivate us, love should motivate us. Perfect love casts out all fear, and we would be without peace if we were always fearing losing our salvation.

Love should but doesn't. We're all stupid sheep.....never looking up and grazing our way right off the edge of a cliff. We don't have perfect love. I for one needed a wake up call before I fell off the edge.....

Why do you think Jesus spoke more of hell than of heaven ? If it wasn't a clear & present danger, He'd never had brought it up....

Love motivates me now...but not then. It took a little dose of reality & fear to get me to see how to love.....But I am in no way afraid now - I know Who's in control.

God bless,

Bob

[Guest LadyC]

Fear should not motivate us, love should motivate us. Perfect love casts out all fear, and we would be without peace if we were always fearing losing our salvation.

well, i totally agree with this. it is love that motivates me in my walk with Christ... it was fear that had me always wondering if i was "really saved" or not. perfect love does cast out all fear. that's why i'm no longer afraid of whether or not i'm really saved... because i know that i am still choosing salvation... because i WANT it!

when i believed in OSAS, i was always fearful.