The freewills gospel

[childeye]

You have identified three different freewills. One that says we have the ability to choose. One that says we have the right to choose, and one that says there are options. All of these say we morally choose between good and evil. But you missed the important one. The free will that is free from being an enslaved will and will never choose good or evil, because it knows good and evil are a condition of the heart. The absolute which properly defines these terms is God. For freedom from sin is serving God and freedom from God is serving sin. Without this no one can understand scripture.

Fact: there is a truth and He is the light. There is a lie posing as a truth and deceiving men holding their minds captive in darkness.

Fact: Those in darkness, who have a lie for the truth, they are blind, but those who have the true light and see the Truth, they are the seeing. However, those who are deceived, think they are the seeing and believe the others, who actually see, are the blind. Is this Babylon?

Note: jesus said, I am the light the Truth and the way. He came preaching a gospel, to give sight to the blind and to make the seeing blind.

Note: Jesus said the Truth shall set you free from the slavery of sin, saying you are of your Father the devil, and his works you will do.

Consider: Jesus says the eyes are the lamps of the soul. If your eyes are good you will be filled with light. But if your light is darkness, how deep is that darkness. He is saying that if you see the Truth you will be filled with light. But if your truth is in reality lies, how deep is your deception. Hence the blind leading the blind all fall into a ditch.

Consider: The pharisees who crucified him, yet he forgave them saying "Forgive them, they know not what they do". These Pharisees had said, "will you call us blind also?" Jesus answered, "If you were blind, you'd have no sin, but because you say we see, your sin remains".

The Truth being revealed here is that God is our light, He is what makes us good or evil. He is our Truth because He is Love, and Love makes a man righteous. He is proving this theough the Old and New Testaments.

Consider: The other freewills are a false truth based on the Old Testament belief that man can be righteous through his ability to choose to be. God places before man life and death and a set of written ordinances they should are commanded to perform so as to be righteous. As we know, men fail at this and are condemned as unrighteous. The New Testament however is about God writing the laws on men's hearts and minds and causing us toi walk in His ways. This time through the Newness of the Spirit and not by the Oldness of the letter. Because the letter kills but the Spirit gives Life. God is proving there is no goodness in man apart from God.

Consider: The other terms for freewill that chooses, is the false truth of Satan in which he holds mens minds captive and I believe even his own. He became proud over what God had given him taking it as his own volition to be who he was, as if he had earned it. And this vanity became sin and his downfall. Satan proposed there was a choice in the Garden of Eden when he said we could disobey God and yet live. He implied that through the knowledge of good and evil we could be righteous of our own accord being able to know the ways of good and evil. Man not knowing God is their light and goodness, that Love made a man righteous and not knowledge, were deceived, and have been ever since. That's why there are two righteousnesses, one of works and one by grace through faith.

Consider: Abraham had two sons. One by his own efforts trying to make God's promise come to pass. Ishmael was then born through the bondswoman. Then Sarah the freewoman gave birth to Isaac whom God had promised and Sarah was the freewoman. These are types of the Old and New testament.

So, the Truth is, man cannot be good or evil by choice, so therefore cannot do good or evil by choice. God in a man or absent in a man makes him good or evil and he will do accordingly. The lesson is Love God with all your heart mind and soul for He is our righteousness. Those who are convinced and know that men's wills are ruled by either truth or lies, will turn the other cheek, love their enemies, pray for those who despise them, return good for evil, be merciful without condemnation of others, knowing the will be judged according to their own measure. They will preach the gospel trying to set others free, knowing that the deceived will persecute them for it. They will carry their cross and forgive all who nail them up there, knowing they know not what to do.

The reason the bible doesn't have any referance to a freewill is because, in the true concept of God as Spirit, as the light of man and the life of man, and man as the image of God, does not allow it. It would be like the mirror thinking it was the object instead of the reflection. Such is the difference between the Creator and the creation. This vanity is pointed out in Romans 1. The only reason early Fathers proposed freewill, was pertaining to reasoning not desire. In other words, a man's reasoning governs his actions but not his desire. For this purpose Godless or ungodliness was used.

Finally I bring up the fact that there will be those who say we can yet choose not to follow Christ or that we can choose our flesh over Gods Love. My point here is to say we don't have the ability to sin, we have the disability to sin. It may be true for some that they for whatever reason cannot repent, such as Satan, yet it may be God making examples of them, a byword for future generations. We all have a weakness and God knows this. To ponder whether to trust God or not however is in fact ignorance and betrayal, for once you know the Truth and leave it, you cannot come back. The wrath of God is upon those who suppress the truth and do not esteem God as God.

Edited March 23, 2011 by childeye

[Matthitjah]

Bless you brother,

Consider: Abraham had two sons. One by his own efforts trying to make God's promise come to pass. Ishmael was then born through the bondswoman. Then Sarah the freewoman gave birth to Isaac whom God had promised and Sarah was the freewoman. These are types of the Old and New testament.

So, the Truth is, man cannot be good or evil by choice,

So when Abraham chose to go down to Egypt and to lie about his wife he wasn't making a choice to lie? He wasn't choosing to go down to Egypt, the world, and seek assistance and relief from the famine in the land? God told him to go down to the land that He had promised him.

Was this disobedience?

Finally I bring up the fact that there will be those who say we can yet choose not to follow Christ or that we can choose our flesh over Gods Love. These people ponder sin as option. This may be true for some, such as Satan, yet it may be God making examples of them, a byword for future generations.

You are sinless then?

The Word say's this;

1Jo 1:8

[Bold Believer]

You have identified three different freewills. One that says we have the ability to choose. One that says we have the right to choose, and one that says there are options. All of these say we morally choose between good and evil. But you missed the important one. The free will that is free from being an enslaved will and will never choose good or evil, because it knows good and evil are a condition of the heart. The absolute which properly defines these terms is God. For freedom from sin is serving God and freedom from God is serving sin. Without this no one can understand scripture.

Fact: there is a truth and He is the light. There is a lie posing as a truth and deceiving men holding their minds captive in darkness.

Fact: Those in darkness, who have a lie for the truth, they are blind, but those who have the true light and see the Truth, they are the seeing. However, those who are deceived, think they are the seeing and believe the others, who actually see, are the blind. Is this Babylon?

Note: jesus said, I am the light the Truth and the way. He came preaching a gospel, to give sight to the blind and to make the seeing blind.

Note: Jesus said the Truth shall set you free from the slavery of sin, saying you are of your Father the devil, and his works you will do.

Consider: Jesus says the eyes are the lamps of the soul. If your eyes are good you will be filled with light. But if your light is darkness, how deep is that darkness. He is saying that if you see the Truth you will be filled with light. But if your truth is in reality lies, how deep is your deception. Hence the blind leading the blind all fall into a ditch.

Consider: The pharisees who crucified him, yet he forgave them saying "Forgive them, they know not what they do". These Pharisees had said, "will you call us blind also?" Jesus answered, "If you were blind, you'd have no sin, but because you say we see, your sin remains".

The Truth being revealed here is that God is our light, He is what makes us good or evil. He is our Truth because He is Love, and Love makes a man righteous. He is proving this theough the Old and New Testaments.

Consider: The other freewills are a false truth based on the Old Testament belief that man can be righteous through his ability to choose to be. God places before man life and death and a set of written ordinances they should are commanded to perform so as to be righteous. As we know, men fail at this and are condemned as unrighteous. The New Testament however is about God writing the laws on men's hearts and minds and causing us toi walk in His ways. This time through the Newness of the Spirit and not by the Oldness of the letter. Because the letter kills but the Spirit gives Life. God is proving there is no goodness in man apart from God.

Consider: The other terms for freewill that chooses, is the false truth of Satan in which he holds mens minds captive and I believe even his own. He became proud over what God had given him taking it as his own volition to be who he was, as if he had earned it. And this vanity became sin and his downfall. Satan proposed there was a choice in the Garden of Eden when he said we could disobey God and yet live. He implied that through the knowledge of good and evil we could be righteous of our own accord being able to know the ways of good and evil. Man not knowing God is their light and goodness, that Love made a man righteous and not knowledge, were deceived, and have been ever since. That's why there are two righteousnesses, one of works and one by grace through faith.

Consider: Abraham had two sons. One by his own efforts trying to make God's promise come to pass. Ishmael was then born through the bondswoman. Then Sarah the freewoman gave birth to Isaac whom God had promised and Sarah was the freewoman. These are types of the Old and New testament.

So, the Truth is, man cannot be good or evil by choice, so therefore cannot do good or evil by choice. God in a man or absent in a man makes him good or evil and he will do accordingly. The lesson is Love God with all your heart mind and soul for He is our righteousness. Those who are convinced and know that men's wills are ruled by either truth or lies, will turn the other cheek, love their enemies, pray for those who despise them, return good for evil, be merciful without condemnation of others, knowing the will be judged according to their own measure. They will preach the gospel trying to set others free, knowing that the deceived will persecute them for it. They will carry their cross and forgive all who nail them up there, knowing they know not what to do.

The reason the bible doesn't have any referance to a freewill is because, in the true concept of God as Spirit, as the light of man and the life of man, and man as the image of God, does not allow it. It would be like the mirror thinking it was the object instead of the reflection. Such is the difference between the Creator and the creation. This vanity is pointed out in Romans 1. The only reason early Fathers proposed freewill, was pertaining to reasoning not desire. In other words, a man's reasoning governs his actions but not his desire. For this purpose Godless or ungodliness was used.

Finally I bring up the fact that there will be those who say we can yet choose not to follow Christ or that we can choose our flesh over Gods Love. My point here is to say we don't have the ability to sin, we have the disability to sin. It may be true for some that they for whatever reason cannot repent, such as Satan, yet it may be God making examples of them, a byword for future generations. We all have a weakness and God knows this. To ponder whether to trust God or not however is in fact ignorance and betrayal, for once you know the Truth and leave it, you cannot come back. The wrath of God is upon those who suppress the truth and do not esteem God as God.

As a Reformed Presbyterian, even I am finding this mishmash you've written difficult to understand. I'm a Calvininst and whatever this is you've written, it bears no resemblance to the teachings of Calvinism as I understand them. It doesn't even look like hyper-Calvinism. So then, what in the WORLD are you talking about?

The concept of free-will says that man is free to choose to believe in God or reject God. The problem with free-will is that it fails account for the sovereignty of God, making man MORE powerful than God since in this teaching, man can say No (on his own) to God.

Scripture teaches that the reason a person chooses to believe on Jesus Christ is that God is the root cause of the belief. God is the Light which causes otherwise ignorant men to believe, and that occurs because God fore-ordained it from the Beginning. When a persons hears the Gospel and refuses it, it is evidence that they may not be chosen. (This is not to say that they might hear again and then believe; as long as a person as alive, they have a chance to prove they are chosen by believing.)

[childeye]

name='Matthitjah' timestamp='1300880498' post='1661477'Consider: Abraham had two sons. One by his own efforts trying to make God's promise come to pass. Ishmael was then born through the bondswoman. Then Sarah the freewoman gave birth to Isaac whom God had promised and Sarah was the freewoman. These are types of the Old and New testament.

So, the Truth is, man cannot be good or evil by choice

So when Abraham chose to go down to Egypt and to lie about his wife he wasn't making a choice to lie? He wasn't choosing to go down to Egypt, the world, and seek assistance and relief from the famine in the land? God told him to go down to the land that He had promised him.

Was this disobedience?

Thank you Dave for your response. There is nothing wrong with testing the Spirits and you do so forthrightly and well mannered.

Of couse he chose to lie and the bible specifys why. This does not mean he meant any malice for he was moved by fear. Always this word choose. I would point out that everything happens for a reason. Wisdom precedes wise choices and ignorance precedes ignorant choices. It's a moral issue I am addressing in this thread. The moral decision is a binary and spiritual one. Love does no evil. Where there is no light, there is darkness. I do not argue we choose to do evil or good pertaining to a subjective view, for we must do one or the other. I argue from an obbjective view, that Love makes us care how we treat others and we should cherish that Love as God's Spirit not our good decision. Or in other words, an evil man who is without Love chooses to do evil, while a man filled with Love chooses to do loving actions.

Finally I bring up the fact that there will be those who say we can yet choose not to follow Christ or that we can choose our flesh over Gods Love. These people ponder sin as option. This may be true for some, such as Satan, yet it may be God making examples of them, a byword for future generations.

You are sinless then?

I was born in sin as all men and as my post indicated. I am making my way out thanks to the gospel I now preach!! Given to each man according to His faith for righteousness is by faith. You bring up the scripture if a man says he has no sin he is a liar. If I say I do sin, will you then bring up 1John 3:9,10 which says that those born of God do not sin and cannot sin? Shall we pull out our swords and begin to slay one another in a carnal attitude of pride? Let me instead try to be disarming for you you concerning this; for I agree with 1John, that one who is born of God, does not sin even as Jesus said the Truth will set you free, while not disagreeing with the other scripture, knowing all men have sin through Adam in the Flesh. Of course there is a difference between having sin in the flesh and sinning on purpose. I do not wish to condemn anybody else so I speak only concerning myself, having said that, let me answer you this way. I am full while others go hungry. I am warm where others are cold. I have a bed in a house to sleep in while others sleep in alleys , under bridges, in homeless shelters, whole families. I have not sold everything I own and given the money to the poor. I am a sinner. I am simply saying I'm not perfect yet, but I give God the glory that I even think this way, for He is Love.

Let's talk about verifying the things that you say. The Word say's to be a Berean. Can you support your commentary with the Word please?

I provided scripture, The parable of the eyes are the lamps of the soul Matt 6:22,23, The Truth shall set you free from the slavery of sin John 8:32-34. The works of your Father you will do John 8:44, Satan is the Father of lies John 8:44, God is the light of man John 1:4, God is Love 1John 4:8. There is no goodness in man apart from God, The two covenants are two seperate righteousnesses one of letter one of Spirit, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Romans 10:3. God writes the Law on peoples hearts and minds, 2 Corinthians 3:3. Man is the image of God Genesis 1:26, not God is the image of man. Men did not esteem God as God and became vain, Romans 1:21. The two sons of Abraham one by effort and one by promise, Galatians 4:24. The children of God return good for evil, pray for their enemies, Luke 6:35.

Read John 8:34 or somewhere around there to see that the Truth, "the destroyer of lies," sets people free from the slavery of sin. This means that sin is not chosen but that they who sin are deceived, although in deception they choose, they do not choose to be deceived. Semantics. Read Romans 1 and the begining of 2 about the wrath of God against the vanity of men who worship the creation over the creator. How God gave them over to lust of the flesh, a reprobate mind, vile affections. This lust of the flesh is not chosen but hardwired as scripture says, it is enmity against God and there is nothing good in it. Hence the carnal mind is set on the things of the flesh, Romans 8:7. See how God made the Israelites wander the desert for forty years. Note the story of Paul who was Saul, how he persecuted and murdered Christians. He is struck blind and then scales fall from his eyes, and he preached the gospel as a slave to Christ. These scriptures are showing that men are not in control. Saul saw something that changed him into Paul, a new creation, he saw the Truth. He wrote of the two righteousnesses as he well knew for he served both. We are not robots, but we are souls, vessels of Spirit. For this reason the scripture says, we carry this treasure in earthen vessels so that it may be of God and not of ourselves. God chooses the lowly rich in faith to put to naught the high things. In other words he chose the sinners over the pharisees, where many of the last will be first, to prove it's not men who choose God but God who chooses men. The Holy Spirit is what changes a man, the Spirit of Truth, because men are deceived.

I really could go on and on and on but I would have a formidable post to read. Let me tell you how thankful I am you responded and let us reason together. I preach the gospel to set people free. If I am not preaching what was ascertained from God, I then blaspheme His name before men. I wouldn't leave you blind because that's not what I would have done to me. Would you leave me blind? The Truth I've seen is what I preach. I say it is not I who made it up, but was taught by God. As the scripture says, they shall all be taught by God. I do not glorify myself or men with the gospel I preach, I glorify God alone and lift uo Hisn Christ through whom the knowledge of God is seen. I came to know God through Christ, and Jesus said, Why call me good? God alone is good. But listen to me, as if you don't know this. I think I would be most grateful if Christians would quit equating sin with freedom. Rather than hear them say we have the ability to sin, I wish they'd say we have the disability to sin. Rather than them think they have the right to sin, I wish they would view it as slavery. Instead of seeing an option, I wish they'd see a lust of the flesh. but most of all, I wish they'd see God as the light of man and be grateful for the Love that He is.

God bless you also Dave. Talk to me more. What have I said that bothers you? Let me know. I sincerely want to know. Have I answered your questions adequately?

Edited March 24, 2011 by childeye

[Guest]

Of course he chose to lie and the bible specifies why. This does not mean he meant any malice for he was moved by fear.

Lack

And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Genesis 17:15-16

Of Faith

And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing? And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. Genesis 20:10-11

But

Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. Hebrews 11:11-12

God

~

[childeye]

Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. Hebrews 11:11-12

God

~

This is really a remarkable set of scripture you produced Fresno, thank you. I'm ever growing unto the Lord.

Edited March 24, 2011 by childeye

[Matthitjah]

name='Matthitjah' timestamp='1300880498' post='1661477'Consider: Abraham had two sons. One by his own efforts trying to make God's promise come to pass. Ishmael was then born through the bondswoman. Then Sarah the freewoman gave birth to Isaac whom God had promised and Sarah was the freewoman. These are types of the Old and New testament.

So, the Truth is, man cannot be good or evil by choice

So when Abraham chose to go down to Egypt and to lie about his wife he wasn't making a choice to lie? He wasn't choosing to go down to Egypt, the world, and seek assistance and relief from the famine in the land? God told him to go down to the land that He had promised him.

Was this disobedience?

Thank you Dave for your response. There is nothing wrong with testing the Spirits and you do so forthrightly and well mannered.

Of couse he chose to lie and the bible specifys why. This does not mean he meant any malice for he was moved by fear. Always this word choose. I would point out that everything happens for a reason. Wisdom precedes wise choices and ignorance precedes ignorant choices. It's a moral issue I am addressing in this thread. The moral decision is a binary and spiritual one. Love does no evil. Where there is no light, there is darkness. I do not argue we choose to do evil or good pertaining to a subjective view, for we must do one or the other. I argue from an obbjective view, that Love makes us care how we treat others and we should cherish that Love as God's Spirit not our good decision. Or in other words, an evil man who is without Love chooses to do evil, while a man filled with Love chooses to do loving actions.

Finally I bring up the fact that there will be those who say we can yet choose not to follow Christ or that we can choose our flesh over Gods Love. These people ponder sin as option. This may be true for some, such as Satan, yet it may be God making examples of them, a byword for future generations.

You are sinless then?

I was born in sin as all men and as my post indicated. I am making my way out thanks to the gospel I now preach!! Given to each man according to His faith for righteousness is by faith. You bring up the scripture if a man says he has no sin he is a liar. If I say I do sin, will you then bring up 1John 3:9,10 which says that those born of God do not sin and cannot sin? Shall we pull out our swords and begin to slay one another in a carnal attitude of pride? Let me instead try to be disarming for you you concerning this; for I agree with 1John, that one who is born of God, does not sin even as Jesus said the Truth will set you free, while not disagreeing with the other scripture, knowing all men have sin through Adam in the Flesh. Of course there is a difference between having sin in the flesh and sinning on purpose. I do not wish to condemn anybody else so I speak only concerning myself, having said that, let me answer you this way. I am full while others go hungry. I am warm where others are cold. I have a bed in a house to sleep in while others sleep in alleys , under bridges, in homeless shelters, whole families. I have not sold everything I own and given the money to the poor. I am a sinner. I am simply saying I'm not perfect yet, but I give God the glory that I even think this way, for He is Love.

Let's talk about verifying the things that you say. The Word say's to be a Berean. Can you support your commentary with the Word please?

I provided scripture, The parable of the eyes are the lamps of the soul Matt 6:22,23, The Truth shall set you free from the slavery of sin John 8:32-34. The works of your Father you will do John 8:44, Satan is the Father of lies John 8:44, God is the light of man John 1:4, God is Love 1John 4:8. There is no goodness in man apart from God, The two covenants are two seperate righteousnesses one of letter one of Spirit, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Romans 10:3. God writes the Law on peoples hearts and minds, 2 Corinthians 3:3. Man is the image of God Genesis 1:26, not God is the image of man. Men did not esteem God as God and became vain, Romans 1:21. The two sons of Abraham one by effort and one by promise, Galatians 4:24. The children of God return good for evil, pray for their enemies, Luke 6:35.

Read John 8:34 or somewhere around there to see that the Truth, "the destroyer of lies," sets people free from the slavery of sin. This means that sin is not chosen but that they who sin are deceived, although in deception they choose, they do not choose to be deceived. Semantics. Read Romans 1 and the begining of 2 about the wrath of God against the vanity of men who worship the creation over the creator. How God gave them over to lust of the flesh, a reprobate mind, vile affections. This lust of the flesh is not chosen but hardwired as scripture says, it is enmity against God and there is nothing good in it. Hence the carnal mind is set on the things of the flesh, Romans 8:7. See how God made the Israelites wander the desert for forty years. Note the story of Paul who was Saul, how he persecuted and murdered Christians. He is struck blind and then scales fall from his eyes, and he preached the gospel as a slave to Christ. These scriptures are showing that men are not in control. Saul saw something that changed him into Paul, a new creation, he saw the Truth. He wrote of the two righteousnesses as he well knew for he served both. We are not robots, but we are souls, vessels of Spirit. For this reason the scripture says, we carry this treasure in earthen vessels so that it may be of God and not of ourselves. God chooses the lowly rich in faith to put to naught the high things. In other words he chose the sinners over the pharisees, where many of the last will be first, to prove it's not men who choose God but God who chooses men. The Holy Spirit is what changes a man, the Spirit of Truth, because men are deceived.

I really could go on and on and on but I would have a formidable post to read. Let me tell you how thankful I am you responded and let us reason together. I preach the gospel to set people free. If I am not preaching what was ascertained from God, I then blaspheme His name before men. I wouldn't leave you blind because that's not what I would have done to me. Would you leave me blind? The Truth I've seen is what I preach. I say it is not I who made it up, but was taught by God. As the scripture says, they shall all be taught by God. I do not glorify myself or men with the gospel I preach, I glorify God alone and lift uo Hisn Christ through whom the knowledge of God is seen. I came to know God through Christ, and Jesus said, Why call me good? God alone is good. But listen to me, as if you don't know this. I think I would be most grateful if Christians would quit equating sin with freedom. Rather than hear them say we have the ability to sin, I wish they'd say we have the disability to sin. Rather than them think they have the right to sin, I wish they would view it as slavery. Instead of seeing an option, I wish they'd see a lust of the flesh. but most of all, I wish they'd see God as the light of man and be grateful for the Love that He is.

God bless you also Dave. Talk to me more. What have I said that bothers you? Let me know. I sincerely want to know. Have I answered your questions adequately?

Grace to you,

Brother, you're not bothering me. I ama Moderator here and it's my service to oversee content. You speak in generalities and off the cuff. I was merely looking for re-proof.

I preach the Gospel in the streets to homeless men, on occasion. I always' tell them that if anything I say disagree's with the Word to disregard what I'm saying. However, that if I preach in generalities to call me on it and I will offer re-proof because it is by the Word that hearing comes and that hearing brings forth Faith.

I don't try to put the Gospel in my own words because then it has no power. The Gospel is Saving Power and brings forth faith.

peace,

Dave

[enoob57]

You have identified three different freewills.

Who is the you here?

One that says we have the ability to choose. One that says we have the right to choose, and one that says there are options. All of these say we morally choose between good and evil.

Are you saying choice came through sin unaffected?

But you missed the important one. The free will that is free from being an enslaved will and will never choose good or evil, because it knows good and evil are a condition of the heart.

Matt 19:17

17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." NKJV

?

[childeye]

Grace to you,

Brother, you're not bothering me. I ama Moderator here and it's my service to oversee content. You speak in generalities and off the cuff. I was merely looking for re-proof.

I preach the Gospel in the streets to homeless men, on occasion. I always' tell them that if anything I say disagree's with the Word to disregard what I'm saying. However, that if I preach in generalities to call me on it and I will offer re-proof because it is by the Word that hearing comes and that hearing brings forth Faith.

I don't try to put the Gospel in my own words because then it has no power. The Gospel is Saving Power and brings forth faith.

peace,

Dave

Thank you my delightful brother and God's hand of grace over you and your house. I also preach the Gospel, but to the atheists and all those who regard Christians as blind followers of a book written by men. I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness. You have read my standard discourse I believe that sounded to you "New Agey" under the thread why does God send peolpe to hell. You did not get the whole discourse, but the gist, regarding the fact that all men have an image of God. I am taught how to reveal lies by a Truth that is self-evident. It is actually quite simple. There is Love and it exists apart from mans reasoning. I then through Christ personify this Love. The Truth is knowable and able to be seen apart from scripture. Free will is a major part of it, for atheists believe they can be good without "religion" and deny fundamentaly that there are any powers above controlling their destiny, hence they insist we have a freewill.

I have had to learn scripture so I could verify for myself and to other Christians that I am being led by The Holy Spirit. I am in fact relieved you have no problem with what I say. I have been removed from several other Christian forums for saying these things I was taught and moved to say. Peace be to you and strength in your walk according to His grace in Christ.

Edited March 24, 2011 by childeye

[childeye]

name='Bold Believer' timestamp='1300898841' post='1661550']

As a Reformed Presbyterian, even I am finding this mishmash you've written difficult to understand. I'm a Calvininst and whatever this is you've written, it bears no resemblance to the teachings of Calvinism as I understand them. It doesn't even look like hyper-Calvinism. So then, what in the WORLD are you talking about?

Please grant me your patience Sir, or Ma'am, friend, fellow sojourner. I am not preaching what you perceive as Calvinism. I trust we would agree that Caivin had his perspective from which he viewed God. I am simply preaching that there are higher powers that govern and direct ones destiny or destination. It would be no different than to say sin leads to death but the Spirit of God is Life. I seek to establish in a mans conviction that there are lies and there is Truth. I preach to unbelievers and those who hate religion. Their fundamental deception is that they have a freewill and there are no higher spiritual powers that control their destiny.

The concept of free-will says that man is free to choose to believe in God or reject God. The problem with free-will is that it fails account for the sovereignty of God, making man MORE powerful than God since in this teaching, man can say No (on his own) to God.

Did I not just say this above? I recently read a thread where an Atheist was arguing with a Christian. The Christian was saying the Ahteist believed in determinism and the Atheist insisted he believed in freewill. The Atheist said that Determinism was the belief in God since He had declared the end from the beginning. This is the point of this thread. I wsh Christians would not say we have the ability to sin. I wish they would say we have the disability to sin. Rather than thinking they have the right to sin, I wish they'd view it as slavery. Instead of seeing an option to sin I wish they'd see a lust of the flesh. But most of all I wish they'd see God as the light of man and be thankful and worship Him for the Love that He is.

Scripture teaches that the reason a person chooses to believe on Jesus Christ is that God is the root cause of the belief. God is the Light which causes otherwise ignorant men to believe, and that occurs because God fore-ordained it from the Beginning. When a persons hears the Gospel and refuses it, it is evidence that they may not be chosen. (This is not to say that they might hear again and then believe; as long as a person as alive, they have a chance to prove they are chosen by believing.)

You have no argument from me here, This is my point I wish to make in fact. This is why there are two Covenants one of works and one of faith. One that thinks they make themselves righteous through obedience to written commandments, and one that knows they are made righteous by God's Spirit living in them through Faith. One is Satanic in origin for the spirit of it contains both temptation and accusation. The other inspires a Spirit of self sacrifice, forbearance and forgiveness. One glorifes the creation and one the Creator. Please ask any questions you feel need to be addressed. The Temple of God is built with bricks and mortar, the strength of the mortar is agreement.

Edited March 24, 2011 by childeye