The freewills gospel

[Fez]

I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness.

But you have still not qualified as to what you mean by this statement?

[childeye]

One is Satanic in origin for the spirit of it contains both temptation and accusation. The other inspires a Spirit of self sacrifice, forbearance and forgiveness. One glorifes the creation and one the Creator. Please ask any questions you feel need to be addressed. The Temple of God is built with bricks and mortar, the strength of the mortar is agreement.

You are saying that the law of God is satanic in origin ?

Surely there's some misunderstanding.

Thank you Morning Glory, you are clever and not willing anything get by you. Blessed be your keen eyes. What you are inquiring of is of a deeper knowledge than I may be able to adequately explain. First I must address what is the corruption in man so that I can make more sense of why I called the Old Testament Satanic. Try to remember that Jesus blood was shed to fulfill the requirement of the Old Testament, and that before Jesus ascended into heaven to intercede on our behalf as the son of the morning, there was no intercession on behalf of man that knew what it is like to be a man, and the Angel known as the son of the morning was at that time whom we now call Satan.

If we see the affects of the knowledge of good and evil, we will note that we saw we were naked and hid, even from our maker. Clothes are not to cover ones self from ones self but from others. This is then a defiled conscience. So from this we see that we had become afraid of what others might think of us even the God who made us. We found shame where as before we had no reason. We had become corrupted. Finding fault in others becomes a judgmental hypocrisy since we draw lines for others to meet that we ourselves do not meet. We find imperfections in others but are blind to our own.

Now note that we were kicked out of the Garden and had to earn our bread from the sweat of our brow, that weeds would come up where we planted crops, that women would bear their children in pain. These are all indications that we had to learn what we had taken for granted. This is the same thing Satan did, take what was given to him for granted. My point is our perception had changed and was corrupt, there was iniquity and injustice. Note Jesus describes this wickedness of finding fault where none existed in Matthew 11:18, by Calling John a Demon possesed madman for not eating and drinking, and yet calling Jesus a glutton and a wino for eating and drinking. This corruption is a problem of perception where we find only fault. Why? Because we fill lifted up by putting others down, same as Satan. Also we could have it great having been given everything we need, and yet think it is not so, like the lesson the prodigal son had to learn. We can find fault enough to crucify the Son of God for breaking the law even though he is without any sin. The covering of Christ through his blood essentially destroys this corruption through becoming through his Spirit, forgiving, understanding, and having forbearance for one another. And Jesus said to the woman who had been caught in adultery, "where are your accusers?" And she answered, "You have made them all go away".

Romans 3:24 Being freely justified by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past through the forbearance of God. For sin was made known through the law and all men are guilty.

God has made all things work unto His ends, even Satan, and to differentiate between Satan's will and God's purpose is difficult to articulate, and therein lies the problem in regards to your faithful and pure statement, "there must be some misunderstanding". For what in one sense is bad God in another sense can make good.

I believe that the Old Testament was a trap for Satan, conceived by God in His foreknowledge that vanity would arise. Remember Satan is a vanity that takes God's providence for granted through an ignorance that exists because Satan is not all knowing, nor can anyone be, except God. This is why we must trust Him for such doubt cannot go on forever. God hates having His integrity scrutinized in unbelief. I believe that God instituted the Old Testament, the Law of God, to condemn all men as sinners, so that no man could boast of righteousness in vanity, and therefore so that all accusations would become hypocrisy, Romans 3:19.

What I am saying is the Old Testament was under the administration of Angels at a time when Satan, Then known as Lucifer, was the covering Cherub, Ezekial 28. As you know, the dragon in Revelations 12:4 awaits the birth of the King of kings so as to devour him. On Earth this would be a spiritual power working though Herod and the High Priests, through both religious and secular powers on earth but spiritually answering to Jerusalem on earth. Satan is this dragon therefore over the principalities and powers mentioned in Colossians 2:15. For these powers under Satan, this dragon, crucified the Son of God who was without sin, and vanity was exposed as a pious fraud before all heaven and earth. The law that condemned the sinless one then became void. The Old Testament was not of faith but of works wherein is boasting, which is the same spirit of Satan who glories in his beauty given by God. The Old Testament therefore became a snare for Satan. When I use the term Satanic, it is this vain self-righteous spirit that crucified the Christ under the authority of the Old Testament, and was then cast out of heaven as is seen in revelations 12:10. For we who are set free from the bondage through the Old Testament by the blood of Christ no longer answer to the Jerusalem on Earth but now answer to the Jerusalem in heaven. So the scripture offers tangible proof that the Old Testament and the law of God gave power to sin,(Romans 6:14) and was used by Satan to condemn (Collossians 2:15, Revelations 12:10). My purpose in starting this thread is to point out that men are slaves of sin and the Old Testament verifies this through the inability of any man to keep it. The New Testament shows that righteousness is a gift of God by grace through faith, this changes all perspective on a reasoning that is greater than the one built upon the knowledge of good and evil through which our minds were made corrupt. The Truth That God is our light and to think we can be good or bad, through our volition is falsehood and vanity, taking God for granted. Had the Old Testament, which was based upon this assumption that men could obey it and attain righteousness, been able to save mankind, we would not need a New one.

[childeye]

I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness.

But you have still not qualified as to what you mean by this statement?

People who think Christians are blind followers of a book wriiten by men give no credence to scripture. I must therefore approach their reasoning through self-evident Truith and then show that scripture was saying that all along.

[Guest]

I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness.

But you have still not qualified as to what you mean by this statement?

People who think Christians are blind followers of a book written by men give no credence to scripture. I must therefore approach their reasoning through self-evident Truth and then show that scripture was saying that all along.

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

When

My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Proverbs 2:1-2

You Want

Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Proverbs 2:3-4

To Give The Very Best

Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. Proverbs 5-6

Forget The Rest

[Guest madisgrandpa]

Joshua in 24:15 said, "choose you this day whom you will serve; . . ." And, how can I be expected to follow a command that I have no ability to decide whether or not to do so. To not have a free will makes us nothing more or less than robots. That was what Jesus set us free from, to deliver us to the prison of no choice. Now the door swings in both direction. You see, We were not more free before coming to faith in Christ because, according to your blog, now that we have been set free indeed, we are in more bondage than before. My dear friend, you are free indeed, however, you are also responsible and accountable for your decisions. The Bible is clear that we are without excuse. Man has wasted more time trying to find a loophole to his responsiblity and accountability, when he could have searched and found absolute freedom in the Truth of God's Word. Unfortunately, we too often want to go our own way, which is what got us here in the first place. The thing that brings so much glory to God is when His creation "willingly" lays down their life for Him. God bless!

[Fez]

I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness.

But you have still not qualified as to what you mean by this statement?

People who think Christians are blind followers of a book wriiten by men give no credence to scripture. I must therefore approach their reasoning through self-evident Truith and then show that scripture was saying that all along.

But that alludes to the fact, and your post on the Old testament proves it, that you do not trust scripture in the first place?

Why use your own words instead of the word of God?

Placing yourself, your words, before scripture, which is what you are doing, is dangerous, and I believe wrong?

[MorningGlory]

So, the Truth is, man cannot be good or evil by choice, so therefore cannot do good or evil by choice.

Then none of us can ever be forgiven sin because we can't repent. Sorry; I don't believe this stuff at all.

Yes we can repent. We can repent from thinking we choose to be good or evil, and give God the glory for our righteousness seeing it as a gift rather than a choice. Hence we would be esteeming God as God rather than our prerogative. Read the prodigal son. He repented of his choice to leave the Father upon learning the Truth. Once he regretted his decision made out of ignorance, he knew it would be better to be a servant in his Fathers house than to be free from His Fathers authority. This is all I've said.

No, according to you we can't repent because we have no free will. If we can't repent we cannot obtain forgiveness from God. That whole premise is absolutely unscriptural. Please provide the verses from the Bible which would back up your claim.

[MorningGlory]

I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness.

But you have still not qualified as to what you mean by this statement?

People who think Christians are blind followers of a book wriiten by men give no credence to scripture. I must therefore approach their reasoning through self-evident Truith and then show that scripture was saying that all along.

But that alludes to the fact, and your post on the Old testament proves it, that you do not trust scripture in the first place?

Why use your own words instead of the word of God?

Placing yourself, your words, before scripture, which is what you are doing, is dangerous, and I believe wrong?

Unbelievable wrong.....AND dangerous. Putting one's own ideas above Scripture is heresy.

[childeye]

name='madisgrandpa' timestamp='1301223047' post='1662416']

Thank you for your sincere response and loving admonition, but respectfully, I do believe you misunderstand me.

Joshua in 24:15 said, "choose you this day whom you will serve; . . ." And, how can I be expected to follow a command that I have no ability to decide whether or not to do so.

This is a common question and is on point. The answer is that we can decide "to say" we will keep a commandment but that does not mean we are capable of doing it. Joshua 24:19, And Joshua said to the people, you cannot serve serve the Lord: for He is a Holy God, He is a jealous God, He will not forgive your transgressions or sins. Romans 3:10, As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:23, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

To not have a free will makes us nothing more or less than robots.

We are not robots but vessels for spirit either light or dark. The children of God, fillled with the light, therefore return good for evil and do not sin, while the children of the devil, filled with the darkness or rather void of light, return evil for evil and sin. 1John 3: 8,9,The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devils work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because Gods seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

That was what Jesus set us free from, to deliver us to the prison of no choice. Now the door swings in both direction. You see, We were not more free before coming to faith in Christ because, according to your blog, now that we have been set free indeed, we are in more bondage than before.

I do not understand why you say I think we are in deeper bondage after coming to Christ. I view servitude to Christ as freedom from sin. Being subject to Truth is to be filled with light where God rules in ones heart through Faith in Christ. One must serve either God unto life or sin unto death. It matters not that there exists an option since only one is true and the other a deception.

My dear friend, you are free indeed, however, you are also responsible and accountable for your decisions. The Bible is clear that we are without excuse. Man has wasted more time trying to find a loophole to his responsiblity and accountability, when he could have searched and found absolute freedom in the Truth of God's Word.

The bible scripture you are referring to Romans 1, saying we are without excuse, is pertaining to our esteeming of God as God, not to our "freewill" to choose between God and an idol. In essence God is saying we have no right to ponder there is another way other than God. We are therefore accountable to God concerning this since we ponder the denial of His Godhead. It is as if God is saying He is wrathful against those who believe they have a "freewill" to choose between Him and someone else. He then gives men over to the will of the flesh to prove it, and men become abominations showing our depravity apart from His Spirit. This is why in chapter 2 Paul says we have no right to judge others because in doing so we condemn ourselves. I am not looking for a reason to sin, only the corrupt mind would seek to want to sin. I am looking to give glory to God for our righteousness.

Unfortunately, we too often want to go our own way, which is what got us here in the first place.

Here I find nothing to disagree with you. I would add that the reason we seek to go our own way is because we do not trust God in the first place.

The thing that brings so much glory to God is when His creation "willingly" lays down their life for Him. God bless!

His glory remains the same in my opinion and no man can add to it or take away, but I would say, we give glory to the Spirit of His Christ that we do lay down our lives for one another. Thank you for your blessing. My love in Christ unto you. Write back and tell me what you think of what I've said here.

Edited March 27, 2011 by childeye

[childeye]

I do not rely on scripture therefore, for this is the first turnoff in credibility to my witness.

But you have still not qualified as to what you mean by this statement?

People who think Christians are blind followers of a book wriiten by men give no credence to scripture. I must therefore approach their reasoning through self-evident Truith and then show that scripture was saying that all along.

But that alludes to the fact, and your post on the Old testament proves it, that you do not trust scripture in the first place?

Why use your own words instead of the word of God?

Placing yourself, your words, before scripture, which is what you are doing, is dangerous, and I believe wrong?

Unbelievable wrong.....AND dangerous. Putting one's own ideas above Scripture is heresy.

My dear sister, please, I am sorry if my words alarm you. I thank you for your concern however. The Word of God existed before the bible as I'm sure you know. Love did not appear because the bible did. Many people call the bible the word of God while I would call it a testimony to the Word. Let us remember that there were those who studied and taught scripture that crucified the Christ. For this reason, Jesus said, "Go look in your precious scripture in which you think you have eternal life, for they all testify to me". If you are offended at me, I do not wish to cast any stumbling stone for you. I have said nothing except that which glorifies my Lord and his Lord, our Lord. I've studied scripture for over thirty years, and have preached the gospel to every person I've ever met for more than twenty of those years. I've been married for 34 years and have grandchildren as old as thirteen. God has blessed me and my house because of my glorifying Him in all things. I have seen this Truth deliver men from severe and sinful conditions and I will die preaching it in servitude to God. You will not find one thing I have said that is not in scripture as I have provided for you. I bless you with only my best hopes for you and your house and pray you be at peace. God bless you.