End of the Age of the Gentiles

[JohnD]

And actually it is of the last 1/2 of the 70th Week of Daniel.

The first half will see Israel in prominence.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many have taken extreme license interpreting this passage. Leaving it in its context... which other times Daniel refers to the covenant it is in reference to the Mosaic Law the Old Covenant.

Daniel 9:4 (KJV)

4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Etc.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Jews who reject Jesus reject the New Covenant. The false messiah who will come claiming to be the genuine article will affirm the Old Covenant. If you think about it, how else could the Jews be mislead by this fellow unless the "anti-christ" is actually the false messiah (whom they will believe in the real Messiah)?

You think a Gentile world leader will do what the Jewish Son of God could not do by way of convincing them?

There are other hints...

Matthew 24:20 (KJV)

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Shomer Shabbos has never taken precedent over fight nor flight in all Jewish history. In fact on Shabbat marching round Jericho they marched six times more than the rest of the week.

So Jesus' warning was of a Jewish State where Sabbath Law is enforced because they believe all is well. And as the false messiah makes inroads towards the holy of holies... do you really think the Jewish people will think everything is peachy unless they are convinced he is their Jewish Messiah?

**Some have interpreted my posts to be replacement theology. They are not. Or that I am somehow against the Jews. I am not. My heart breaks along with the Lord's that his own people do not know their Messiah or their God in Jesus Christ (Y'shua HaMoshiakh). I pray for the peace of Jerusalem every day (the salvation of Jews). I have learned how to witness Jesus using only the Old Testament with the specific objective of witnessing to Jewish people which I have done for many years now. I have also been on many Messianic boards over the past 15 years (and am internet pals with Jews for Jesus founder Martin (Moishe) Rosen.

Maybe this knowledge will help my posts to be better received knowing I want what's best for Yisro'el... sadly the Bible indicates when everything else has been tried and as the last of the last resorts they cry out to Y'shua HaMoshiakh Save Now (Hosha Nah!) Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord baruk habba b'shem 'donoi. And then the Lord Jesus will come and rescue those few Jews who survive to that point.

[mizzdy]

The Jews who reject Jesus reject the New Covenant. The false messiah who will come claiming to be the genuine article will affirm the Old Covenant. If you think about it, how else could the Jews be mislead by this fellow unless the "anti-christ" is actually the false messiah (whom they will believe in the real Messiah)?

You think a Gentile world leader will do what the Jewish Son of God could not do by way of convincing them?

There are other hints...

Matthew 24:20 (KJV)

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Shomer Shabbos has never taken precedent over fight nor flight in all Jewish history. In fact on Shabbat marching round Jericho they marched six times more than the rest of the week.

So Jesus' warning was of a Jewish State where Sabbath Law is enforced because they believe all is well. And as the false messiah makes inroads towards the holy of holies... do you really think the Jewish people will think everything is peachy unless they are convinced he is their Jewish Messiah?

Not getting into the end times debates but your statement I bolded made me laugh, of course the Jewish nation and people will and have looked towards gentiles as leaders. Its been a pattern since the ancient Israelites thought they could rule themselves apart from His law. I don't believe that whoever comes along as the ac will 'reconfirm' what most consider the 'old covenant', he will cease the fightings make some 'peace' agreement. There is already a Sabbath law in Israel one does not need to be made up and enforced. I'm sure there's going to be some who see the ac as the Messiah just as some christians around the world will see him as the Messiah also. This is not a thread to start discussing old and new covenant, personally I do not believe God changed His mind and threw out His instructions and started over again. So to answer your question, yes I do think that the Jewish folk in Israel will accept an American, Brit or anyone else that will help them bring the palestinians, hamas, Lebanon etc into a peace accord. Messiah needs to be Jewish brings to mind that they would insist on blood tests, an extensive history of His family, answer tons of questions on Torah, etc.

shalom,

Mizz

[Guest yod]

You think a Gentile world leader will do what the Jewish Son of God could not do by way of convincing them?

He is called "Christ" in the greek world because of the way Jews re-interpreted a greek word meaning "anointed one" from the Septuigint (written before the advent of Yeshua)

There were only 2 "christos" in the bible....King David (Jewish) and Cyrus of Persia, a gentile.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I think it's important to not Romans 11, which exposes the return of the nation of Israel to God, in embracing Jesus after the time of the Gentiles is complete, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25).

So the time of the Gentiles is come in, after the blindness departs from Israel, which is after the 3 1/2 'seven' spoken of in Daniel. So when it says in Luke "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24), its after Israel returns to God, according to Romans 11.

[Guest yod]

I think it's important to not Romans 11, which exposes the return of the nation of Israel to God, in embracing Jesus after the time of the Gentiles is complete, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25).

So the time of the Gentiles is come in, after the blindness departs from Israel, which is after the 3 1/2 'seven' spoken of in Daniel. So when it says in Luke "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24), its after Israel returns to God, according to Romans 11.

I'm not in agreement with your timeline (mainly because I'm not in agreement with any timeline) but the "fullness" (Paul in Romans) and the "Times" (Yeshua's words) of the Gentiles are not necessarily related...and were said decades apart.

Jerusalem was trodden underfoot of the Gentiles since the Babylonian captivity (650 BC) except for a short time under the Hasmonean/Maccabbees (150 BC)

Are they now? No, they are not...so someone is mistaken. You or Jesus?

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I'm not in agreement with your timeline (mainly because I'm not in agreement with any timeline) but the "fullness" (Paul in Romans) and the "Times" (Yeshua's words) of the Gentiles are not necessarily related...and were said decades apart.

That they were said decades apart is totally irrelevant. The Bible was written over about 1,500 years and has prophesies in the beginning that are concluded at the end. When some passage that relates to some other passage was written doesn't matter. "Who is it he is trying to teach? o whom is he explaining his message? To children weaned from their milk, to those just taken from the breast? For it is: Do this, do that, a rule for this, a rule for that[a]; a little here, a little there” (Isaiah 28:9-10).

Paul in Romans writes about the return of the nation of Israel to God at the end of the time of the Gentiles, which is fulfillment of numerous prophesies in the OT, all of which I'm sure you're aware.

The time of the Gentiles, therefore is defined in Romans as being complete after the nation of Israel is no longer under deceiption but comes back to Christ.

So regardless of when the revelations were delivered, we know from both the OT and the NT that there will be a time of gentiles, and in Romans 11 it is defined as ending when the nation of Israel returns to God.

Jerusalem was trodden underfoot of the Gentiles since the Babylonian captivity (650 BC) except for a short time under the Hasmonean/Maccabbees (150 BC)

Yep.

Are they now?

Yep.

No, they are not...so someone is mistaken. You or Jesus?

Unless your premise is false, which it is, because what God tells us is that the fulness of the gentiles would be come in when Israel returns to God.

They are trodden upon. Israel is accountable to the UN, which is trying to divide up Jerusalem. 80% of what the British promised Israel (the historical boundaries of Israel) was given over to be an Arab nation (Jordan).

The world blames Israel for nearly everything, and startling volumes of policies exist for Israel that apply to no one else.

It's just you (not Jesus) I'm disagreeing with then - you're creating a false dichotomy of me verses Jesus by estabishing your interpretation as Jesus.

[Guest yod]

Israel is accountable to the UN, which is trying to divide up Jerusalem.

If it were "trodden underfoot", they could do it without Israel's permission.

It's just you (not Jesus) I'm disagreeing with then - you're creating a false dichotomy of me verses Jesus by estabishing your interpretation as Jesus.

Here is what Jesus said:

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24)

If they are no longer trodden down of the Gentiles, (and they are not) then either Jesus made a mistake or this interpretation is mistaken.

That's all I'm saying...

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

If it were "trodden underfoot", they could do it without Israel's permission. Have they? Can they?

Lots of things the UN insists upon are irrespective of Israel's permission. That Israel's permission is sought is diplomacy, but the UN can revoke that permission.

Here is what Jesus said:

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24)

I know. I already quoted that.

If they are no longer trodden down of the Gentiles, (and they are not) then either Jesus made a mistake or your interpretation is mistaken.

That's all I'm saying...

I know that's all you're saying, and in so saying you're equating yourself with Jesus, for some reason.

Prophesy and eschatology are tricky, and to equate your interpretation with Jesus' word is pretty confident. I'd actually warn that it's also very dangerous.

You're predicating your point on your interpretation of events, after all. That's pretty subjective, and demonstrably so since I maintain that they very much are still trodden by the gentiles. They don't have a quarter of the Promised Land in their possession and the Dome of the Rock occupies the Temple Mount. If they can decide on their own taxes and garbage collection routes without having to apply for permission, then great, but that doesn't mean they're no longer being trodden down.

Israel is a cup of trembling for all the nations and is being subjected to the influence and authority of the gentiles.

Theyre not even allowed to do what they want with the Temple Mount. Its really bad there.

[Guest yod]

I know that's all you're saying, and in so saying you're equating yourself with Jesus, for some reason.

Prophesy and eschatology are tricky, and to equate your interpretation with Jesus' word is pretty confident. I'd actually warn that it's also very dangerous.

That's bunk.

You're predicating your point on your interpretation of events, after all.

That's pretty subjective, and demonstrably so since I maintain that they very much are still trodden by the gentiles.

Try going through Ben Gurion, Dov, or Elat airport. Let me know who searches you. It won't be the U.N.

They don't have a quarter of the Promised Land in their possession

but the subject of Yeshua's statement is Jerusalem, not the Promised Land.

and the Dome of the Rock occupies the Temple Mount. If they can decide on their own taxes and garbage collection routes without having to apply for permission, then great, but that doesn't mean they're no longer being trodden down.

Right....but whose military defends and controls it?

THAT is who owns it.

Israel is a cup of trembling for all the nations and is being subjected to the influence and authority of the gentiles.

They’re not even allowed to do what they want with the Temple Mount. It’s really bad there.

You find out who controls it when the muslims start throwing rocks down. They are allowed to be there because Israel allows them. No other reason.

Jerusalem is no longer "trodden" underfoot of the gentiles for the first time since Yeshua made that statement, therefore the verse has been fulfilled and the TIMES of the Gentiles have ended. (If we can believe Jesus knows what "trodden" means)

[JohnD]

Yod, Mizz,

We are talking about a religious leader among the Jews. One who clearly has something to do with the rebuilt temple and re-instituted levitical sacrifices.

And as I said, no goy would approach the qodesh qodeshiym... and the Jews think all is well or enforce shabbat laws.