Methodist Church: Homosexuality is a Gift, Not a Sin

[~candice~]

Sherlock, you noticed too? Byron, what is your position on homosexual acts within a monogomous same sex relationship?

[Byron A]

Perhaps there is some confusion here because Byron was discussing the difference between those who act on their temptations, and those who don't. This spurred a discussion on temptation. 1 Cor 10:13 makes is crystal clear that a homosexual can resist. 1 Cor 6:9-11 makes it crystal clear that they should resist.

And this pastor says they shouldn't resist, because their temptations are a gift from God. The same God who says homosexuality is an abomination. Byron says he does not think that this Pastor is endorsing or encouraging sin. Byron also said he has no problem with homosexual acts if the couple is monogamous and 'married,' even though they cannot be married, biblically-speaking. Both assertions are false. So Byron may or may not be confused. One thing is clear, however, he is 100% wrong on both counts.

Can you quote to me where I said that? I think my words have either been twisted or misunderstood somewhere, because I NEVER gave approval for gay marriage on this forum, or even addressed gay marriages.

If you interpret the Bible using context and the analogy of Faith (a basic hermeneutical tool that interprets a scripture with other scriptures), you will see that only certain types of homosexuality are condemned. For example, in Genesis story with Sodom and Gommorah, its not a case of simple homosexuality, but rather gang-rape. In Leviticus passages, the Torah is condemning same-sex temple prostitution. The term that most translate as homosexual in Paul's epistles is a vague term that no one today knows the meaning of because Paul coined the term. Back in Martin Luther's day, they all thought it meant masturbator.

Yes, there are a few other passages that people use to condemn homosexuality. Use the Analogy of faith and context to read them with fresh eyes. You will see if you read each passage objectively, that each passage only condemns certain homosexual practices. The bible is silent on monogamous loving relationships!

God bless you and have a good day!

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives.

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

But I never brought up gay marriage. That last post you quoted, I was saying that homosexual sexual activity is a sin, but not the orientation.

[Byron A]

Sherlock, you noticed too? Byron, what is your position on homosexual acts within a monogomous same sex relationship?

I think gay sexual activity is sinful. However, heterosexuals have romantic relationships that do not involve sex. I see no reason why homosexuals cannot.

[enoob57]

Sherlock, you noticed too? Byron, what is your position on homosexual acts within a monogomous same sex relationship?

I think gay sexual activity is sinful. However, heterosexuals have romantic relationships that do not involve sex. I see no reason why homosexuals cannot.

Mark 7:21-23

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man."

NKJV

We do not serve God outwardly but inward and thoughts are intents of whatever..... Love Steven

[~candice~]

Sherlock, you noticed too? Byron, what is your position on homosexual acts within a monogomous same sex relationship?

I think gay sexual activity is sinful. However, heterosexuals have romantic relationships that do not involve sex. I see no reason why homosexuals cannot.

You STILL have not addressed my posts on this topic. Why should a temptation, which acted upon would be sin, be celebrated or accepted in our lives? This orientation is not from God, so why do you want to defend someone's right to have same sex orientation?

[Guest man]

You know Bryon, there's no shame in admitting a wrong. I've had to swallow my pride a few times since visiting this forum. Like someone here stated, "No one has the perfect theology", but if we work together, pay attention and are honest with ourselves, there are things to be learned here.

[~candice~]

You know Bryon, there's no shame in admitting a wrong. I've had to swallow my pride a few times since visiting this forum. Like someone here stated, "No one has the perfect theology", but if we work together, pay attention and are honest with ourselves, there are things to be learned here.

Bryon, can we come at this from another angle? Instead of looking at scripture to determine if homosexual orientation is acceptable, why not look at scripture for his design for sexuality? It stands to reason that a Christian should be, as David was, a man after God's heart. We want our mind aligned with His, our thoughts and beliefs and desires to be as His is. Right?

Reading from the text should indicate that His design for sexuality is confined to a marriage of a man and a woman for life. This then should form our framework for sexuality, and anything outside of that represents movement away from His desire, and hence rejected.

[Matthitjah]

You know Bryon, there's no shame in admitting a wrong. I've had to swallow my pride a few times since visiting this forum. Like someone here stated, "No one has the perfect theology", but if we work together, pay attention and are honest with ourselves, there are things to be learned here.

Bryon, can we come at this from another angle? Instead of looking at scripture to determine if homosexual orientation is acceptable, why not look at scripture for his design for sexuality? It stands to reason that a Christian should be, as David was, a man after God's heart. We want our mind aligned with His, our thoughts and beliefs and desires to be as His is. Right?

Reading from the text should indicate that His design for sexuality is confined to a marriage of a man and a woman for life. This then should form our framework for sexuality, and anything outside of that represents movement away from His desire, and hence rejected.

Amen,

Since we are being Saved into Him. we ought really find out who He is. If we deem that He is Rigfteous then we ought really be determined to use His measure of Righteousness and not our idea of what it should look like.

[Smalcald]

Yes a homosexual can resist and so can a person who is having an affair or leaving their marriage. The thing is I was thinking about this do we say the same things we say to gay people to people who are living in sinful marriages?

Define a "sinful marriage." Because I realize that you are also one of those who believes that anyone who has been divorced and is re-married is a pariah and committing an unforgivable sin, even though you have no biblical grounds for your beliefs. The church treats all divorce as if it is a sin in every case and that is far from the truth.

We are talking about homosexuality and this churches, and pastors attitude towards it, not divorce and remarriage. I find it odd that you think we should just let this issue go, but you are pretty stringent about picking on divorced people every chance you get. That is looking like hypocrisy to me.

I have never said that divorce is an unforgivable sin, so that would be a lie. Unrepentant adultery on the other hand is not going to be forgiven for those who refuse to repent of their adultery. In fact divorce is often not a sin at all. But what "church" are you talking about? The only Church that is hard on divorce is the Roman Catholic Church. Most of the other Churches today particularly the Evangelical and non-denominational churches seem to totally accept divorce, a good portion of the ministers are divorced.

I do think the topic helps us understand the temptations and challenges of those who must be celibate however. For example if a person is tempted to have sex with people of the same sex according to scripture this is sin,for a person plagued by these temptations the only option is celibacy which Paul as we know suggested for many Christians. But what about the man who cheats on his wife and leaves her? If she does not take him back what are his options? His options are the same as the gay man, celibacy. If he ignores scripture and married the women who he was in an adulterous relationship with the marriage would not be valid, it would simply be living in fornication as he is still married to his first wife. So the challenges are the same and I think it helps us have some compassion on those who wrestle with the gay perversion.

The reason I say let the topic go is that it is not an issue in my congregation it is not open to debate no one is agitating for gay acceptance; so if some other congregation is off the rails I can do nothing about that but pray and point out that it is wrong. What is a much bigger problem in my congregation is adultery, fornication and divorce, this is where the healing is needed.

[Smalcald]

Well you bring up a good point. I am not divorced although I have sinned in many other ways. However look at what you wrote and replace sexual temptations for the same sex with divorced. You may get at what I was pointing too. We should not accept what this Church is preaching I totally agree and we should not accept other sexual sins either, so how do we do that with compassion?