Methodist Church: Homosexuality is a Gift, Not a Sin

[Guest Butero]

You wanna know where I stand on the subject of gay Christians? If they claim to be Christian, and I see love for others coming out of them (for example, charity, evangelism, etc.) I take them at their word and let the Holy Spirit clean up their lives.

I have not been called to point out the sin in fellow Christian's lives. I don't know, maybe you have. Although I doubt it. I have been called to worship God in fellowship with others. I worship with people of all walks of life every week. That worship brings them closer to God regardless of what sins are in their life. While they are there in His presence, then God can deal with their sin Himself. As long as one's sins are not hurting someone else, I allow God to handle them.

IMHO, sanctification is a separate matter from salvation. Sanctification is a long process, a process of becoming like Christ. And its a personal matter, between God the Holy Spirit and the believer. It will be different for each person.

I am also one who believes that sin does not take our salvation away. If God deals with a certain sin in that process of sanctification, and we ignore it, God will not cast us away. He may chastise us, and it may distance us from Him. We may even lose some of our rewards in the next life. But our salvation itself is assured. Do not the Scriptures say that nothing can separate us from His love? I believe that also includes sins.

I am done discussing this subject for the time being. I think everything that can be said on the subject has been said, so we will just continue to go in circles if we continue to discuss it. And going in circles is just a waste of time. It also serves to divide us.

Have a good day, and God bless you!

There are a lot of people that believe they are saved, and they are not. Jesus spoke of those who will claim to have known him at the time of the judgment, but they will be turned away as they were never really Christians. The Bible also speaks out concerning how to deal with sexual immorality in the church. The Apostle Paul said to turn such a one over the Satan. If we were following your logic, that would be wrong, because those people were still saved and we have no business putting them out of the church. We are basically left with three possible ways to look at the situation. Either they were still saved, even though they were in incest and adultery, but were a bad example, so they had to be put out of the church, or they were never saved, or they lost their salvation. Regardless, Paul said to put them out of the church. I believe the same thing would apply to practicing homosexuals.

As you can see Byron, I am just catching up on this thread. I am glad you decided to return, and I am not sure everything that can be said has been said on this topic? Your last argument seems to be over whether or not to allow people in wilful sin to remain in fellowship in the church? Even if they are saved, as you contend, Paul says no.

[OneLight]

First I agree there is no middle ground with sin for any of us, so a Church cannot simply accept fornication or accept homosexual lust, its clearly a sin.

I honestly believe that our Churches should speak more about biblical chastity what it means how to practice it, we also need to give people a way forward. So what is the way forward for someone who is only attracted to the same sex? There are two ways, the first is that the Holy Spirit will change their desires, this is possible as all things are possible with God, the second is that the person must remain chaste and also celibate for their life with no real change in their sexual temptations. From what we know this is the more likely course for many Christians who have this temptation. We have to be willing in my opinion to work with people and talk about the fact that celibacy is possible and is not "odd" in fact some of the Apostles were celibate men. This would apply to all people who are in situations where they must remain celibate and chaste in mind and spirit and there are many Christians who are called to do this.

Peace to you and I never meant to condemn or hurt anyone who is divorced or is left in that situation; the whole point of our faith is forgiveness for ALL sins and when or if we ever abandon that we are totally doomed.

I don't think you are giving Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough credit as to how much change they can affect on a person's heart and spirit when they truly walk with Christ. I believe that anyone who truly accepts Christ and seeks to have as close a relationship with Him as possible and please Him will be convicted to change sinfull acts in their life and be empowered at the same time to do so. Not all at once in the majority of cases, and it may always be a struggle, but it is always possible. People often do not give the Holy Spirit enough credit for the change He can effect and we often try and do His job for him and force conviction on someone and that is not our job. We need to always point sin out when we see it, but not beat people over the heads with it. My seniors pastor put it best, I think. He made the following remark to me one time when I was struggling with something, namely, alcohol:

"People think that when you become a Christian there are all kinds of things you can't do. That is not accurate. When you become a Christian, what you want to do will change."

The Bible says this will happen very clearly:

2 Corinthians 5:16-18 16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

This church not only leads people to believe that homosexual behavior isn't sinful and allows them to play russian roulette with their salvation, it actually cheats them of realizing the full power which the Holy Spirit can affect within their lives in the form of healing and sanctification. This pastor denies the power of God.

Well said. When one thinks that sin comes naturally, it is due to the fall, not by design of God. By accepting it is of God, they then justify their sin. These also claim that they are being taught by the Holy Spirit, yet the Holy Spirit brings truth. Do these deny part of His teaching, neglecting it by labeling it unloving? I don't know. Do these people pick and choose what they want? Again, I am not sure. One thing I do know is that they reject parts of scripture as it reads, twisting it to be acceptable by those they wish to embrace, removing the power of His Spirit in convicting the world of sin.

There are many ways to be a false teacher. One way is to twist the meaning of love, the love that God places in our heart for the lost. This love is designed to care for the lost, telling them what the truth of sin is, and praying for them in hopes that our words have been planted in solid ground so the Holy Spirit will be able to nurture the truth and change an individual through His convictions. It is not meant to accept people the way they are, or have chosen to be, and allow them to continue living a life God did not design. That is not love, but acceptance, taking the easy way out, neglecting the love God gave us to move us to show people the way to Him.