Methodist Church: Homosexuality is a Gift, Not a Sin

[wyguy]

We are called to peace. If we are all agitated over every social issue that goes against scripture we will never be at peace.

We are at war with the world, the flesh, and the devil. It's the very reason we are to put on the armor of God.

This is a good topic; the peace versus war analogies from scripture.

Why do we put the armor of God? Is it because of the poor deluded Methodists or is it Satan, who is walking about like a roaring lion seeking to devour, is it the gays or is it Satan?

As far as the world goes we are not a part of the world, we are pilgrims, we are not citizens of this world according to scripture. How are we to act with regards to the world?

"7 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The Bible also says, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil..." (Isaiah 5:20)

"Woe" sure isn't a good thing. Sanctification is growing more Christ-like every day. And I doubt very much that Jesus would say, "It honestly does not bother me that this so called Church endorses fornication as a gift."

I think Jesus would be very bothered. And thus, so should we.

[Smalcald]

Onelight what do you think that passage tells us to do in regards to heretics or people who are way off base on scripture? '

To me it is about us about the war that we fight spiritually against the forces mentioned.

For example in this case, this Methodist congregation saying that fornication is a gift; now this is very much against scripture and I think it is indeed of the world in that they are trying to curry favor with the world. But what are we to do? Are we to be agitated and upset and mad and so forth? I don't think so, I think we are to live in peace with all people as best that we can and we are to point out heresy and preach the Gospel in peace.

I think the world today often sees us as angry unhappy people, and this is a terrible witness, who would want to convert to that?

Like I was speaking of earlier ordaining only men as scripture tells us to do is not popular with the world. But I have been through these battles, it is always better to stand firmly and at peace and let the roaring waves simply wash over us and wear themselves out, as happened here, no one really even talks about this issue anymore, they have moved on to ordaining gays, and we still ordain only men and in my denomination it is not even an issue. Of course the sister denomination I mentioned earlier who ordained women some 40 years ago is now embroiled in debate about ordaining gays, what a waste of time!

So I say be firm in what we believe but let these guys go on the path that they are already on we are not going to change that path by getting upset.

WV;

I don't know, do we get upset with porn or divorce or any other sick thing our society goes for today? I mean we could be constantly agitated over this, I am not going down that path we are to live at peace as best we can with other people, we are to be blameless and harmless in the midst of this perversion.

Our peace actually is a testament to our salvation, we have the peace which Christ has left us we need to show that more, and show less frothing at the mouth.

[~candice~]

This much I can (almost) agree with (don't fall off your chair now, man ). Do you believe stricter judgment implies condemnation to hell, regardless of whether that is a loss of salvation, or inability to gain salvation in the first place (OSAS is for a different thread)?

2 Peter 2

16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Look at how Peter describes these people. He calls them "untaught" and "unstable". He points out that their careless handling of the scriptures would lead to their destruction. I don't believe he's talking about a physical destruction because everybody dies, even the righteous. So if he's not talking about physical, he must mean spiritual. What do think it means to be spiritually destroyed?

Read the Epistle of Jude.

When we read about false teachers and prophets, the words used to describe their fate seem to indicate a very unpleasant ending. If I had to describe the Kingdom of Heaven, unpleasant isn't one of the words I would use.

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

[OneLight]

Onelight what do you think that passage tells us to do in regards to heretics or people who are way off base on scripture? '

To me it is about us about the war that we fight spiritually against the forces mentioned.

For example in this case, this Methodist congregation saying that fornication is a gift; now this is very much against scripture and I think it is indeed of the world in that they are trying to curry favor with the world. But what are we to do? Are we to be agitated and upset and mad and so forth? I don't think so, I think we are to live in peace with all people as best that we can and we are to point out heresy and preach the Gospel in peace.

I think the world today often sees us as angry unhappy people, and this is a terrible witness, who would want to convert to that?

Like I was speaking of earlier ordaining only men as scripture tells us to do is not popular with the world. But I have been through these battles, it is always better to stand firmly and at peace and let the roaring waves simply wash over us and wear themselves out, as happened here, no one really even talks about this issue anymore, they have moved on to ordaining gays, and we still ordain only men and in my denomination it is not even an issue. Of course the sister denomination I mentioned earlier who ordained women some 40 years ago is now embroiled in debate about ordaining gays, what a waste of time!

So I say be firm in what we believe but let these guys go on the path that they are already on we are not going to change that path by getting upset.

We are told to turn from those who leave the truth and will not listen. This verse also comes to mind ... Revelation 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still. We can do nothing, but He can through the conviction of His Spirit.

[Smalcald]

Onelight what do you think that passage tells us to do in regards to heretics or people who are way off base on scripture? '

To me it is about us about the war that we fight spiritually against the forces mentioned.

For example in this case, this Methodist congregation saying that fornication is a gift; now this is very much against scripture and I think it is indeed of the world in that they are trying to curry favor with the world. But what are we to do? Are we to be agitated and upset and mad and so forth? I don't think so, I think we are to live in peace with all people as best that we can and we are to point out heresy and preach the Gospel in peace.

I think the world today often sees us as angry unhappy people, and this is a terrible witness, who would want to convert to that?

Like I was speaking of earlier ordaining only men as scripture tells us to do is not popular with the world. But I have been through these battles, it is always better to stand firmly and at peace and let the roaring waves simply wash over us and wear themselves out, as happened here, no one really even talks about this issue anymore, they have moved on to ordaining gays, and we still ordain only men and in my denomination it is not even an issue. Of course the sister denomination I mentioned earlier who ordained women some 40 years ago is now embroiled in debate about ordaining gays, what a waste of time!

So I say be firm in what we believe but let these guys go on the path that they are already on we are not going to change that path by getting upset.

We are told to turn from those who leave leave the truth and will not listen. This verse also comes to mind ... Revelation 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still. We can do nothing, but He can through the conviction of His Spirit.

Thanks for that verse.

[Guest man]

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

If they are not teaching their misinterpretations, then yes, there is a difference. But when they're repeatedly confronted and shown the error of their interpretation and they refuse to back down and accept the truth, then there is no difference. They are saying, "My interpretation is the correct interpretation".

Homosexuality is not a gift from God. It is not an accepted behavior of anyone who claims to be a christian. There is nothng in the bible that supports homosexual activity. When someone comes here and tries to use scripture to support the homosexual lifestyle, they are twisting scripture into something that it isn't. The bible is crystal clear on this issue. There are no grey areas.

Most of us here are "layman christians", but when we put our words out here for the world to see, we become witness' for the Word and our words better be true. If they're not, we better be willing to learn.

[~candice~]

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

If they are not teaching their misinterpretations, then yes, there is a difference. But when they're repeatedly confronted and shown the error of their interpretation and they refuse to back down and accept the truth, then there is no difference. They are saying, "My interpretation is the correct interpretation".

Homosexuality is not a gift from God. It is not an accepted behavior of anyone who claims to be a christian. There is nothng in the bible that supports homosexual activity. When someone comes here and tries to use scripture to support the homosexual lifestyle, they are twisting scripture into something that it isn't. The bible is crystal clear on this issue. There are no grey areas.

Most of us here are "layman christians", but when we put our words out here for the world to see, we become witness' for the Word and our words better be true. If they're not, we better be willing to learn.

Amen

We have agreement, finally. God bless you man.

[Byron A]

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

If they are not teaching their misinterpretations, then yes, there is a difference. But when they're repeatedly confronted and shown the error of their interpretation and they refuse to back down and accept the truth, then there is no difference. They are saying, "My interpretation is the correct interpretation".

Homosexuality is not a gift from God. It is not an accepted behavior of anyone who claims to be a christian. There is nothng in the bible that supports homosexual activity. When someone comes here and tries to use scripture to support the homosexual lifestyle, they are twisting scripture into something that it isn't. The bible is crystal clear on this issue. There are no grey areas.

Most of us here are "layman christians", but when we put our words out here for the world to see, we become witness' for the Word and our words better be true. If they're not, we better be willing to learn.

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives.

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

[wyguy]

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

Well, the Pastor is calling homosexuality a "gift" from God, so clearly, he's wrong.

[Byron A]

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives.

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

Your point of condemning any sexual activity outside of marriage is kind of moot. A homosexual "marriage" is not recognized by God in any way, shape, or form. So any homosexual engaging in sexual activity is engaging in sin whether they have a piece of paper saying they are married or not. Because God does not recognize the marriage at all. Homosexuals cannot be married according to Biblical standards. Homosexuality is a sin in every single case. Period. There is absolutely no homosexual act that is condoned or approved of by God no matter what state the two people involved think the relationship is in. No homosexual union of any kind is allowable.

By strictest definition of the term, a homosexual is someone who is engaged in sexual acts with a person of the same gender. That is the sin. Celibate people are neither gay or heterosexual, they are celibate. The tendency to be drawn to the same sex is, first of all, a personal lifestyle choice. A person is not born with it and a person is able to control it. It is not a "gift" from God. God does not gift people to sin. Second of all, the tendency to be drawn towards the same sex is not the sin, acting on it is.

This pastor is saying that homosexual activities are acceptable. That they are not a sin. That they are a "gift" from God, which is 100% false, so yes, he is openly encouraging people to engage in sin.

No, the definition of homosexual is being attracted to the same sex. Most people cannot help what they are attracted to. I see a big pair of breasts, I cannot help but glance. Doesn't mean I am going to entertain any ideas about the woman who had them, it just simply means that I can't help but be attracted to that physical attribute.

I am sure that this is the definition of homosexuality that this pastor is using. Its the definition most Americans use outside of the fundamentalist circles. I am sure that he is not promoting homosexual activities, but rather recognition that God made some attracted to the same sex and there is nothing to be ashamed about it.

However, since I do not know the pastor, I cannot say it with certainty.

(BTW, I said nothing about gay marriage.)