Love: Judgment vs Non-judgment

[Nyoka]

Wow, Nyoka.

Thank-you for sharing that.

Thank you for the kind thoughts. That episode taught me a lot about the right and wrong way to treat unbelievers/fallen brothers and sisters. The right way is through love, grace and mercy. Sometimes we do need to practise tough love but always with the view of showing God to an unbeliever or restoring a brother or sister to Christ. God showed me through it that His way is always: God first, others second and myself last. We are to put others well being and needs first. I don't mean we give someone everything they want as that will only lead to spoiled selfish people. What it means is we do what is needed, as lead by the Holy Spirit, for a person. For example if a drug addict asked me for money to buy food when I knew he/she would just spend it on drugs I wouldn't give them the money but they need food so I would go out and buy the food and give them that instead. The act of buying the food for them would be an act of love to show them Jesus through us. After all the only way anyone can see Jesus now is in the words, lives and deeds of His followers.

[Smalcald]

But how can we expect a change in heart from those who do not have the Spirit of God living inside of them?

I recall a testimony of a former lesbian. For some reason she wanted to go to church, and the church embraced her, even letting her participate in the bell choir. Over time she felt conviction (not condemnation) of her lifestyle and asked her partner to leave. She did later give her life to Jesus. Bit by bit she walked out of her old lifestyle and began, as she described it, discovered what it is to be a woman - pantyhose, make-up and all. And she loves it!

If the church had hounded her with how sinful she was or her behavior was, this would not have happened.

Good points.

I think that hounding someone specifically and individually is never the path. Also because of the nature of sin, some sin is easily seen and most sin frankly is not seen by men, but only by God. So our human judgments about any individual will usually be wrong. I mean it would be easy for me to point out the sins of a homosexual who was living with her partner because that is public, it would be very hard for anyone to point out the sins of my mind and the sins of omission which I commit every day.

But many times I am made aware, convicted so to speak, of my sins by a particular sermon or bible discussion or just reading scripture, so we cannot change these things as far as what sin is as they do help people, they have helped me greatly.

[winsomebulldog]

I hate to say it, but too often I think Christians fall into a trend of thinking they are helping by being openly confrontational and aggressive in trying to point out how others are sinning. Ultimately, I honestly believe it comes down to a matter of pride. Most of those I've known who behaved in a judgmental way toward others did so because they saw themselves as somehow better. Christians are the worst when it comes to categorizing sins, you know what I mean. "Sure, I over eat, but 'they' are living together without being married!" "Yeah, I gossip a little, but 'they' are drunk more than they're sober!" The analogies could go on and on. And this is what God meant when He told us to get rid of the beam in our own eye before we started trying to remove the speck from someone else's.

I know that I have personally had to pray for God to keep my pride and tongue under control when speaking to someone else about an issue in their life. A good example is that I felt heavily led to visit my sister-in-law several years ago and speak to her about the chip she was carrying around on her shoulder when it came to our church and specifically our pastor's wife. Before I went over there, I asked God to bind my tongue so that I would only say what He wanted me to say instead of giving in to my own pride and saying what I thought. Funny thing was, we had a good, long visit and I wound up not saying a word about her attitude. Instead I just talked about my own relationship with God, our church, and our pastor's wife. I left, wondering if I'd said and done the right thing. That night my sister-in-law came to the revival we were having. It was the first time in a long while that she'd been to church.

The point is, too often we give in to our own personal idea of what needs to be said or done instead of letting God guide us. It is sad how many Christians I know wind up being very harsh toward others because of something they think the other one is doing wrong.

I believe sin needs to be confronted. I believe that it should never be glossed over or ignored for the sake of either political correctness or current social trends or a desire not to "rock the boat." But the moment we start pointing fingers at someone else we need to take a step back and make sure we're doing it with the right attitude of humility, love, and compassion. Otherwise we are stepping outside of God's will and no good can come of it.

[mizzdy]

OK, I often have problems with words, so if anyone has better words for the title of this thread, I'll change it.

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Since aspects of this have become hot-topics lately, I thought maybe we could discuss the principles of this.

(And again, if the positions can be worded better, I'll be happy to change it.)

One side claims that calling sin "sin," not compromising, not letting people get away with embracing sin in the name of tolerance, etc. is love.

The other side claims that accepting people as they are and not "throwing stones", etc. is love.

I'm wondering if there is a balance between them - but uncertain of what that balance is.

Thoughts? Comments? etc.?

Very clear, & so is the Lords Word. First we see that sin is the breaking of God's ETERNAL LAW. (not the book of Moses thing!) 1John 3:4 is still there!

OK: Who that is Born Again with the (Christ's 2 Cor. 3:3's) Eternal Letter Epistle of Christ [iN THEIR HEART] would think to settle for a balancing [act]?

He say's that [iF] ye [LOVE ME] KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS'. The only hint to an balancing act is that of from baby into MATURITY! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 is all the supplied power for this, and is also freely provided for one to be safe to save if one so chooses/u]! Nah. 1:9 And LOVE?? Agape Love [iS A 'MATURED' MORAL PRINCIPLE].

If one is Born Again & wants a good read on the question's [final] merit, they can read Numbers 16. And take special note of verses 2 & 3. It is NO Different today (Eccl. 3:15) or how else did these of Rev. 17:1-5 ones come about? + the Matt. 7:21-22 ones which were at one time quite the sincere one! Unless any think that these 'many wonderful works' mentioned can be done 'outside' of Christ? (Which 'i' cannot buy!)

--Elijah

Where did Moses get those laws? And where can I find eternal laws apart from where God spoke them Himself and then had Moses write them down? 1 John 3:4 tells us whoever commits sin is full of lawlessness, where do you find out what sin is but through the commandments, correct? We can only do these things through His Spirit not by our own period. All of His laws are based in love.

[Smalcald]

Pointing out sin is a function of the Church not individual Christians as most individual Christians are not qualified to make that sort of a judgment, if my pastor speaks to me about something that he notices in my life I will certainly take it to heart, but if a member of the congregation does I would not take it very seriously as that sort of thing says more about them than me. This is the pastors role only; it is part of being an overseer of a congregation.

7 Jesus answered and said to him,

[childeye]

OK, I often have problems with words, so if anyone has better words for the title of this thread, I'll change it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Since aspects of this have become hot-topics lately, I thought maybe we could discuss the principles of this.

(And again, if the positions can be worded better, I'll be happy to change it.)

One side claims that calling sin "sin," not compromising, not letting people get away with embracing sin in the name of tolerance, etc. is love.

The other side claims that accepting people as they are and not "throwing stones", etc. is love.

I'm wondering if there is a balance between them - but uncertain of what that balance is.

Thoughts? Comments? etc.?

It could be said you are decsribing two sides of the cross where Jesus puts an end to accusation. For we are all sinners, and accusation is hypocritical poison for us. This is why there is the need for the Holy Spirit who convicts of sin and reveals hypocrisy. The Gospel of repent and be baptized for the Kingdom of God is at hand, is a declaration that now is the appointed time to turn toward God so as to receive the Spirit of God through belief in His Son, the True Image of God. It is not a call to "stop sinning" which has been said from the beginning. Therefore if we acknowledge God's grace as necessary, His Spirit through the knowledge of Him, as the means by which a man is able to stop sinning, we will preach accordingly and not speak of sin in any way that is condemning. Otherwise we just don't get what Christianity is, and the reason for the New Testament.

Edited May 10, 2011 by childeye