Theistic Evolution's Incompatibility with Scripture

[Guest shiloh357]

Answers in Creation said:

The difference between YEC [Young Earth Creationism] and theistic evolution is not what happened after the creation of Adam, but what happened BEFORE. What happened before (how God created) has no impact upon the Fall, the Curse, or the Cross. They are the same for both.

This is false, theologically. Creationism includes the creation of Adam and Eve. So it YEC creationism (if that is what you want to call it) includes the origin of humanity, and thus has a direct impact the issues pertaining to the Fall, the curch and the cross. How so?

Adam and Eve are said to be direct creations from the dust of the ground. The Bible states this in unambiguous, cocrete terms. There is no misunderstanding what the Bible's claim is. This is the story of man's orign according to Scripture.

Further, the Bible is clear that man was created in God's image or likeness. In Hebrew, it states that man is the image of God. So, what we have here, is not a higher animal, but something totally separate and unique from the rest of the created order. Man's uniqueness, His ability to know right from wrong, his ability to communicate with his Creator set the stage for the magnitude of the Fall and the curse, which in turn makes the case for the need of redemption that occurred on the cross.

No, Adam and Eve were the first Humans. Perhaps at conception (my view) or perhaps at another time (birth maybe, or maturation into adulthood) they were made into God's Image by God breathing His Spirit into them.

Being made into God's image is not how humanity is defined. "Human" is a physiological designation. Humanity is the product of a particular DNA sequence unique to humanity. It is our genetic makeup that makes us human. Next you have another problem. Adam was created alone. He was created directly from the ground. There is an unspecifiied time in Scripture (could have been years) that passaes before Eve is created and she is taken from the side of Adam. Again, this defies Evolution and the theory of Natural Selection.

According to the evolutionary theory, Natural Selection is a blind, impersonal process that determines what survives and what does not survive. Man is said to evolved from an ancestor that he shares with the Apes. God, created man to rule the natural world. Evolution states that man is the product of the natural world and is in effect a simply more evolved animal. God created man superior to the rest of the created order, but Evolution defies this biblical claim.

Secondly, your argument, ironically does not support an evolutionary argument, and also does not square with what the Bible says. First of all, it makes no sense to argue that either that Adam and Eve were born human from nonhuman parents. That has is something that is not intuitively observerd. Secondly, Evolution is the product of natural selection, so simply being born human from nonhuman creatures flies in the face of the theory.

Thirdly, the Bible says that man was created directly from the dust of the ground. To say otherwise is a clear rejection of the biblical narrative. Are you saying the Bible is wrong in claiming that man was created directly from the dirt?

[Guest shiloh357]

I really do not see how you can reconciliate the belief in evolution with the existence of Adam and Eve. Are they also the product of evolution?

if not, then you do not believe in evolution, either.

If yes, then you are forced to conclude that the mutation must have been huge. And from what animals did the evolve in such a discontinuous way?

This istantaneous macro evolution is not accepted by any evolutionist I know, therefore it is not evolution either.

In other words, I do not think you believe in evolution after all, or you did not take into account its logical consequences.

I agree with scientists that we evolved from homo erectus. At some point during the evolution process from homo erectus to homo sapiens, or possibly just after it, God made the first Humans (Adam and Eve) into His (spiritual) Image by breathing His Spirit into them.

This implies that Adam and Eve had human parents, and therefore they were not the first humans.

This is, in my humble opinion, a contradiction of biblical proportions (pun intended :-).

No, Adam and Eve were the first Humans. Perhaps at conception (my view) or perhaps at another time (birth maybe, or maturation into adulthood) they were made into God's Image by God breathing His Spirit into them.

So you are saying that the parents of Adam and Eve were homo herectus?

I cannot imagine any scientist, atheist or believer who share this view. I do not want to be mean but I am surprised that this does not cause you any cognitive dissonance.

If I understood correctly:

- the garden of Eden was the stage of evolution and there were also homo herectus in it, after millions of years of evolution

- suddenly God decided to breath spirit into two homo herectus of two different families, turning them into homo sapiens

- this breath is not only spiritual, but must have involved genetic change since homo herectus and sapiens are physically different

- it is not clear why this breath needed to change their physical structure, like increasing brain size. You seem to indicate that a bigger brain is required to have the same spirit of god, but this borders to a materialistic view of spirituality.

- from that moment, these two humans got aquatinted and the rest followed

Very difficult to swallow, for everybody I think.

I find it amazing that an unbeliever like yourself is more honest about the relationship between Scripture and the Bible than some of those who claim to be Christians.

[nChrist]

viole

I am not sure we can claim dominion on all living things. We are still unable to control a simple virus that causes a cold.

Man could before the fall and being expelled from the garden. This is part of the consequences for sin.

[~candice~]

This is fast turning into a blood bath. Byron, surely you are beginning to see how your stance is not supported biblically or scientifically and must come at the expense of your view on the Word? What you are proposing is saltationism and no evolutionist worth their salt believes that anymore.

[nChrist]

This is fast turning into a blood bath. Byron, surely you are beginning to see how your stance is not supported biblically or scientifically and must come at the expense of your view on the Word? What you are proposing is saltationism and no evolutionist worth their salt believes that anymore.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen Byron show much interest, concern, or respect for God's Word.

[OneLight]

Gods word ...

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

It is as simple as 1 ... 2 ... 3 ...

1. the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground
   
2. breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
   
3. man became a living being

I never understood why this is so hard to accept when we live by faith.

[Guest]

But

But none saith, Where is God my maker, who giveth songs in the night; Job 35:10

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I do disagree with the negative term "narrow-minded", its too judgmental for my tastes. However, I agree with the main gist of this quote, and that is that Theistic Evolution is only incompatible with YEC version of Christianity, but not incompatible with Christianity itself....

The Young Earth Creation, The Power Of God

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6

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Day One, Time Stamped

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. Isaiah 45:18-19

Day Two, Time Stamped

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. Genesis 1:8

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding. Jeremiah 51:15

Day Three, Time Stamped

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

And the evening and the morning were the third day. Genesis 1:12-13

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. Proverbs 20:12

Day Four, Time Stamped

And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:18-19

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name: Amos 5:8

Day Five, Time Stamped

And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. Genesis 1:22-23

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me. Jeremiah 27:5

Day Six, Time Stamped

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; Isaiah 44:24-25

Day Seven, Time Stamped

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Genesis 12:1-3

Is It Only The Narrow-Minded That Will Not Consider The Power Of God

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. Isaiah 11:6-9

Open Up Your Mind (And Heart) And Consider The Power Of God

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 29:11

And Just How Narrow Is The Way Of Salvation

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14

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Dear Byron I Am So Thankful You Are At Worthy And Sharing With Your Family Your Understanding Of God's Holy Word

I Get Blessed Each Time I Search The Scriptures For God's Treasures

Thank You Brother

Be Blessed Belove Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:18

[Byron A]

I personally find another thread on evolution to be offensive. You just left two other evolution threads without any attempt to answer questions posed to you. Why, you can't answer them. Bluntly, the theory of evolution and the Holy Bible contradict each other - they both can't be true. Your total obsession with the theory of evolution indicates that's more important to you than God's Word. Are you trying to fill the entire forum with your evolution garbage? How many threads will be sufficient for you? All you are accomplishing is creating more doubt in yourself and serving as a very poor testimony before men. Why don't you go back to the other two threads and answer the questions posed to you? This thread won't be any different than the other two.

Cite the Scriptures from the Holy Bible that support your outrageous claim that God used evolution to create man from MONKEYS.

At what point in MONKEYDOM did the monkey gain a resemblance to God? Did the "image of God" evolve along with the MONKEY?

Why is "after his kind" mentioned so many times in Genesis 1?

Why does God's Word bluntly declare that man was created on a different day than any other living creatures?

Explain these very simple and blunt portions of Scripture:

Genesis 1:26-27 KJV And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7 KJV And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The above says nothing about God breathing into a monkey to make man. In fact, man's first breath was given to him by God Himself - the breath of life from God.

Why was man given the dominion over all other living things, including monkeys?

Let me repeat one more thing: you're increasing the doubts that other Christians have in you.

I have tried my best to keep up with all the threads, as well as threads on other topics in this forum. Although I think I am ready for a break from discussing evolution for a while. The same things are being hashed and rehashed on it. And nothing new is being presented on either side. And my purpose in discussing evolutionary creationism in the first place wasn't to convince people that its true but rather convince them that its compatible with Christian faith. Everyone seems to want to devolve the topic into discussing the position itself. Thats fine, but that just wasn't my purpose. So I think I will say good-bye to this forum (Apologetics/Faith vs. Science) for a while and focus on more constructive threads than one that causes more division than its worth.

See you all in the other threads of Worthy Christians!

[~candice~]

Trying to reconcile evolution and a literal interpretation of His Word is both asinine and inane. But more than that, it renders the bible useless, for if we have a text that is so vague and lacking in textual indicators that we cannot discern the author's intended meaning, then the only meaning it has is the one we ascribe.

[Guest shiloh357]

I personally find another thread on evolution to be offensive. You just left two other evolution threads without any attempt to answer questions posed to you. Why, you can't answer them. Bluntly, the theory of evolution and the Holy Bible contradict each other - they both can't be true. Your total obsession with the theory of evolution indicates that's more important to you than God's Word. Are you trying to fill the entire forum with your evolution garbage? How many threads will be sufficient for you? All you are accomplishing is creating more doubt in yourself and serving as a very poor testimony before men. Why don't you go back to the other two threads and answer the questions posed to you? This thread won't be any different than the other two.

Cite the Scriptures from the Holy Bible that support your outrageous claim that God used evolution to create man from MONKEYS.

At what point in MONKEYDOM did the monkey gain a resemblance to God? Did the "image of God" evolve along with the MONKEY?

Why is "after his kind" mentioned so many times in Genesis 1?

Why does God's Word bluntly declare that man was created on a different day than any other living creatures?

Explain these very simple and blunt portions of Scripture:

Genesis 1:26-27 KJV And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7 KJV And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The above says nothing about God breathing into a monkey to make man. In fact, man's first breath was given to him by God Himself - the breath of life from God.

Why was man given the dominion over all other living things, including monkeys?

Let me repeat one more thing: you're increasing the doubts that other Christians have in you.

I have tried my best to keep up with all the threads, as well as threads on other topics in this forum. Although I think I am ready for a break from discussing evolution for a while. The same things are being hashed and rehashed on it. And nothing new is being presented on either side. And my purpose in discussing evolutionary creationism in the first place wasn't to convince people that its true but rather convince them that its compatible with Christian faith. Everyone seems to want to devolve the topic into discussing the position itself. Thats fine, but that just wasn't my purpose. So I think I will say good-bye to this forum (Apologetics/Faith vs. Science) for a while and focus on more constructive threads than one that causes more division than its worth.

See you all in the other threads of Worthy Christians!

the real problem is that you are unable to answer questions that point to the holes in the position you have espoused. I don't see that any of this has caused division. You simply don't want to deal with legitmiate challenges to your claims.