OneLight Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm afraid I don't see the difference between a physical church and the spiritual church where two or more are gather in His name. I listened in interest to the videos in your other thread called "Pergamum and the Church of Pergamum". I then stepped back into this post. I shook my head in puzzlement and went back to view it again and listen carefully to what it said. I see a similarity between the compromise in this thread and the warning in the video below. The Warning to the Church of Pergamum How far does one go before compromise is reached? Did Jesus not teach that He hated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans because it taught the church to compromise? In the end, it is up to them to choose what they are to be called, not me. I just see it as a very dangerous, slippery slope they walk on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 How far does one go before compromise is reached? I think we are just disagreeing on how important the name is to the ministry. I mean, if you can find verification that their lifestyle or message or ministry is being compromised I'd be flying red flags, too. But to me, this simply looks like a change in attire to fit the culture - like throwing away the leisure suit and donning a more versatile sports jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2011 How far does one go before compromise is reached? I think we are just disagreeing on how important the name is to the ministry. I mean, if you can find verification that their lifestyle or message or ministry is being compromised I'd be flying red flags, too. But to me, this simply looks like a change in attire to fit the culture - like throwing away the leisure suit and donning a more versatile sports jacket. How you worded this made me laugh. I forgot all about leisure suits! Now I have this ugly picture stuck in my head. But lets talk about changing names to suit the times. Ministry is ministry, no matter if it is a church or a street side ministry. Nowhere is scripture have I read where Christians changed their name for the purpose of drawing more people. They always depended on God to draw them and stood strong in who they are. To me, changing their name shows lack of faith that God will draw to them who He draws and places the power on the catchy name, or a name that is not "insulting" to others. For fifty years they have been under the same name, yet today they decide to change. It may be just a tiny sign of the times, but it is still a sign that ministries will change according to the world. It is all part of what I have come to know as seeker friendly, a compromise to draw people in. God does not need catchy names or tricks to draw people. He has His Holy Spirit who convicts the world of sin, which, according to scripture, is all He uses. We are but just tools in His hands. It is not what this group is doing, but the reason behind it that draws me concern. Today it is a name. What will tomorrow bring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 How about checking the official source? Really, if someone can point to a compromise, I'd agree, but as-is I can't see this as anything to really worry about. New Name -- Same Commitment to Christ JULY 22, 2011 This week, we announced we are changing our name from Campus Crusade for Christ to Cru beginning in 2012. This decision was saturated in prayer and initiated for the sole purpose of reaching the world with the claims of Christ. Recent media reports have questioned our commitment to Jesus and our calling as ministers of the gospel. Those who know and partner with us realize that this is simply untrue. As an organization, we are unswervingly committed to proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ in all that we do. We are committed to the centrality of the cross, the truth of the Word, the power of the Holy Spirit and the global scope of the Great Commission. It is true that we care more about effectively proclaiming the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ than we do about having the word “Christ” in our name. The only name that matters is Jesus and what matters most is connecting people to the name that gives life. For those who may be concerned we have lost our moorings, please rest assured that we are the same organization that has shared the gospel billions of times. We remain committed to the vision and calling that God gave Bill and Vonette Bright in 1951. We exist for the sole purpose of helping individuals experience the transforming grace and forgiveness of the gospel through Jesus Christ. We invite you to join us in taking the initiative to help every person on the planet have the opportunity to say, “Yes,” to Jesus. Help us as we stand for Christ. Then help us take Jesus to the world. http://www.ccci.org/about-us/donor-relations/our-new-name/commitment-to-christ.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2011 How far does one go before compromise is reached? I think we are just disagreeing on how important the name is to the ministry. I mean, if you can find verification that their lifestyle or message or ministry is being compromised I'd be flying red flags, too. But to me, this simply looks like a change in attire to fit the culture - like throwing away the leisure suit and donning a more versatile sports jacket. How you worded this made me laugh. I forgot all about leisure suits! Now I have this ugly picture stuck in my head. But lets talk about changing names to suit the times. Ministry is ministry, no matter if it is a church or a street side ministry. Nowhere is scripture have I read where Christians changed their name for the purpose of drawing more people. They always depended on God to draw them and stood strong in who they are. To me, changing their name shows lack of faith that God will draw to them who He draws and places the power on the catchy name, or a name that is not "insulting" to others. For fifty years they have been under the same name, yet today they decide to change. It may be just a tiny sign of the times, but it is still a sign that ministries will change according to the world. It is all part of what I have come to know as seeker friendly, a compromise to draw people in. God does not need catchy names or tricks to draw people. He has His Holy Spirit who convicts the world of sin, which, according to scripture, is all He uses. We are but just tools in His hands. It is not what this group is doing, but the reason behind it that draws me concern. Today it is a name. What will tomorrow bring? i don't know what tomorrow will bring, but we should wait to see before we start in on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2011 I have tried my best to speak to the idea and not the group themselves. It is happening all over, not just with them, so it is becoming a bigger problem. If it is the desire of the OP to keep this all about Campus Crusaders for Christ, then I have said all I can say. If it about changing a name and why, then I stand on what I have said. Every wrong path starts with a bad decision, a wrong direction, or a better way to do something. Are these name changes just the start of a lot more changes? I don't know. That is why I say "a slippery slope". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted July 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted July 24, 2011 These people have been spreading the gospel for over 50 years and doing an excellent job' date=' and if they deem it necessary to change their name to be more effective, you nor anyone else has the right to question their actions. [/quote'] Their supporters certainly do, and they should have thought long and hard about their supporters before making such drastic changes. Many of their supporters will view this as negative and have no interest in PC. I personally think this was a BIG mistake and think they will lose many supporters. On top of everything else, they tossed name recognition that was associated with reputation and mission. Sadly, I think it will take them a long time to recover and don't view their move as positive at all. All - supporters or not - are entitled to an opinion on this. I've been familiar with their work for all of their existence and agree that they've done a good job. Many expressing opinions here may fit in the supporter category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e lansing Posted July 26, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 895 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/23/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2011 Campus Crusade Drops 'Christ' in New Name CBNNews.com Wednesday, July 20, 2011 Campus Crusade for Christ International is planning to change the name of its U.S. ministry, including nixing the use of "Christ" in its title. Starting early next year, Campus Crusade for Christ's work in the United States will be done under the name "Cru." The new name doesn't apply internationally. "In the U.S., 20 percent of the people willing to consider the gospel are less interested in talking with us after they hear the name. We are changing the name for the sake of more effective ministry," the group explained on its website. CCC leaders said the word "campus" in the group name doesn't "adequately represent" all of its ministries in the U.S., and is even confusing to potential partners. They added that "crusade" is also offensive to some Christians and now carries "negative associations." "There's only one reason we'd change. We want to do a better job of connecting people to God's love and forgiveness," they said. "It's all about helping people experience the good news that Jesus offers." The ministry insists "Cru" is not to eliminate "Christ" from its name. "Our mission has not changed. Cru enables us to have discussions about Christ with people who might initially be turned off by a more overtly Christian name," the group added. Leaders say "Cru" was already a popular shorthand for the ministry. Many campuses have already dropped the "crusade" language from their chapters. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/July/Campus-Crusade-Drops-Christ-in-New-Name/ when I heard this last week some time, i could only think of the financial support that they might lose. But then I also know that if they were lead by God to do such a thing, He will provide for them. Im sure they will fine. e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 26, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2011 I believe the question arises that if they first change the name because it is offensive, will they next change the message if ti also is seen as offensive? When I first read this, my mind went back to a movie I have, called Time Changers. The movie shows how if you take Christ out of the picture, the teaching is not the same. The impression I got was that it wasn't the name being offensive but rather that it was an instant turn-off. That is, the name drove people away before they had the chance to speak or do their work. CCfC was founded in 1951. It has taken them 60 years to realize that their name might be offensive to some, or that the name might be an instant turn-off? That does not wash. They can give any reason, publically, they wish to, but it all boils down to the same thing: Political correctness and compromise. When you begin to compromise on one thing, you are then willing to compromise everywhere else, including the message. The name worked just fine for 60 years, but now all of a sudden, it isn't any good because someone "might" be offended by a word in it. If we got rid of everything that could possibly be found offensive by someone else, we wouldn't have anything left, because someone is always going to take offense at something that someone else says or does. The possiblity that one can remove any word that is offensive from something and make everyone happy is ludicrous. The fact is, there are a great many people in the world who are unhappy and go around looking for things to be offended about. If they think changing the name will attract more people, they are not going to be concerned about re-vamping the message to attract more people as well. They think the name either draws or repulses people when, in fact, there is a spiritual component involved beyond their control. I find it interesting that you so easily concemn one of the most effecient gospel spreading orginizations in the world for attempting to be more effecient. I doubt seriously if many of you even realize what Cru really does across the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Just wondering - what do you think of their concerns? 1. "Campus" doesn't reflect the scope of their ministry anymore. 2. The name as-is loses their audience before they had a chance to begin. My daughter was on staff at Cru for some time until she got married. Thier reasoning is valid and it's a good move. Campus does not reflect their whole mission, Crusade is offensive to many of the people they are trying to reach and they get a very quick introduction to Christ when comversations start up. It's a good thing. yeah, what he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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