removing a church family from church

[oak]

This is certainly not a happy ending In Christ. However the most important part is you had a meeting with them, it was a time for resolving the matter, and they agreed with you. That agreement though not written is binding. If they value their promises, they could have an opportunity, to call you and say that they are having doubts about your directives. We are sinners; the church can be likened to a hospital. But if let’s say your Doctor examines you and prescribes you medication and warns you to avoid certain foods or situation, to get healthy you follow the recommendation. As far as telling them to leave the church, I don’t know about your specific church and dogma. Wouldn’t the church elders want to meet with the brother? This is the best I can do to help.

Oak

[MorningGlory]

The pastor of my first church was fond of saying "the church is the only organisation that exists for people that are not yet members". It was a highly evangelical church.

This is all well and good but I don't think it is right. The church needs to make disciples, not just be evangelical. Making disciples infers mentoring and raising someone up solid in the faith... discipline... to me it would mean there is a role in the church that is focussed on strengthening existing believers, like this couple.

Just my two cents and no refunds.

Thank you for brightening up my Monday.

Btw, that's amazing since I'm still in Sunday!

[oldzimm]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

When a church member starts dividing a congregation, that is a big no no. If someone thinks differently on matters then the pastor does, he/she must speak with the pastor and elders to resolve the problem. Anybody that divides a congregation must go, that person (maybe not knowing it) is doing Satan's work.

I can't give a yes or no on the couple living together before marriage, but I see your point. You made the stipulations on what they must do in order to get married and they were too weak to follow through with them. You had to stick to your guns and had no choice but not to marry them. I don't know if I would of thrown them out of the Church, I think I would of given them a chance to repent and marry them later. Then again, I don't know the whole situation.

My pastor had a similar situation and it is with my son. My son is now 29 years of age and has a girlfriend that he lives with, they are getting married in September. They've been having meetings with our pastor and one of the things the pastor told them was to repent and live separately until their wedding.

No problem right................ well there is a catch 22, they have a 22 month old son. So my son said he can't move out because of his son, but they would agree to refrain from sex until their wedding. I can see my son's point of view, it would be confusing and mental stress for his son to understand why daddy moved away. Our pastor said the temptation would be great, but he agreed and made me my sons accountability partner. So far so good, they only got about fifty days to go.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Just a question - Is the church for sinners or for Christians?

I think of Christ eating with the sinners not with the Pharisees. You have no idea what the rest of your congregatiion is doing behind closed doors - are they the real upstanding citizens of the congregation that you think they are? Christ came to save the very ones that you asked to leave your congregation. I would have befriended them and got them to marry as soon as possible. It seems to me that just by asking the question you are not certain that you did the right thing as do others of your congregation. That couple could have been nutured into a ministering couple for your church. Why judge them as harshly as you have? I guess for me the church is for sinners who need to be shown the love of the Father.

Yes church is for Redeemed sinners. Its for the body to grow and get fed, and at times disciplined. There is Biblical precedent for removing unrepentant from the Body.

Jesus' Words

Matthew 18:15-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

Dealing with a Sinning Brother

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’[a] 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

You see, when a person sins and openly rejects correction, then sows discord among the church it becomes a bigger issue then one who stumbles. As Paul says...

Galatians 5:7-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

Love Fulfills the Law

7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.

11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. 12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

When it gets to this point it needs to be dealt with. I was at a church, who did not deal with a person in sin but allowed him to go, figuring "He needs the Church to keep him from sinning worse"

This made it impossible for me to attend, as this person has made threats on my health and was doing drugs and is very unstable, I was afraid for me and my family, and yet, who should be allowed to go? We are all sinners but a person who brings division should not be allowed as they endanger others.

[e lansing]

This is certainly not a happy ending In Christ. However the most important part is you had a meeting with them, it was a time for resolving the matter, and they agreed with you. That agreement though not written is binding. If they value their promises, they could have an opportunity, to call you and say that they are having doubts about your directives. We are sinners; the church can be likened to a hospital. But if let’s say your Doctor examines you and prescribes you medication and warns you to avoid certain foods or situation, to get healthy you follow the recommendation. As far as telling them to leave the church, I don’t know about your specific church and dogma. Wouldn’t the church elders want to meet with the brother? This is the best I can do to help.

Oak

What you do in a small church with less than 100 who attend and maybe only 60% on any given sunday, most know cohabitation is wrong and 98% in the church know about their situation and now know that they refused my authority, what would you do? I followed the leading of the Spirit first, went to my authorities to get my leading confirmed, it was, and then I followed what Paul said in 1cor 5:1-6 and removed the immoral brother from among us. This person was sleeping with his mom and was married to her! Should we say "give him time he will come around and maybe he will repent." Paul was ultimately concerned how this immoral person would effect the church. I felt the same way. These people had time to make it right but they refused, they knew it was sinful and did not care, this is a cool message to send to other young people in the church. Thanks for you input and im sure you understand where im coming from.

e

[e lansing]

Just a question - Is the church for sinners or for Christians?

I think of Christ eating with the sinners not with the Pharisees. You have no idea what the rest of your congregatiion is doing behind closed doors - are they the real upstanding citizens of the congregation that you think they are? Christ came to save the very ones that you asked to leave your congregation. I would have befriended them and got them to marry as soon as possible. It seems to me that just by asking the question you are not certain that you did the right thing as do others of your congregation. That couple could have been nutured into a ministering couple for your church. Why judge them as harshly as you have? I guess for me the church is for sinners who need to be shown the love of the Father.

Yes church is for Redeemed sinners. Its for the body to grow and get fed, and at times disciplined. There is Biblical precedent for removing unrepentant from the Body.

Jesus' Words

Matthew 18:15-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

Dealing with a Sinning Brother

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’[a] 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

You see, when a person sins and openly rejects correction, then sows discord among the church it becomes a bigger issue then one who stumbles. As Paul says...

Galatians 5:7-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

Love Fulfills the Law

7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.

11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. 12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

When it gets to this point it needs to be dealt with. I was at a church, who did not deal with a person in sin but allowed him to go, figuring "He needs the Church to keep him from sinning worse"

This made it impossible for me to attend, as this person has made threats on my health and was doing drugs and is very unstable, I was afraid for me and my family, and yet, who should be allowed to go? We are all sinners but a person who brings division should not be allowed as they endanger others.

I thought i would also throw in 1 corinthians 5:2 where Paul was telling the leadership at that church that would have removed this immoral person from among them. thanks

e

[e lansing]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

When a church member starts dividing a congregation, that is a big no no. If someone thinks differently on matters then the pastor does, he/she must speak with the pastor and elders to resolve the problem. Anybody that divides a congregation must go, that person (maybe not knowing it) is doing Satan's work.

I can't give a yes or no on the couple living together before marriage, but I see your point. You made the stipulations on what they must do in order to get married and they were too weak to follow through with them. You had to stick to your guns and had no choice but not to marry them. I don't know if I would of thrown them out of the Church, I think I would of given them a chance to repent and marry them later. Then again, I don't know the whole situation.

My pastor had a similar situation and it is with my son. My son is now 29 years of age and has a girlfriend that he lives with, they are getting married in September. They've been having meetings with our pastor and one of the things the pastor told them was to repent and live separately until their wedding.

No problem right................ well there is a catch 22, they have a 22 month old son. So my son said he can't move out because of his son, but they would agree to refrain from sex until their wedding. I can see my son's point of view, it would be confusing and mental stress for his son to understand why daddy moved away. Our pastor said the temptation would be great, but he agreed and made me my sons accountability partner. So far so good, they only got about fifty days to go.

You see I told these the same thing and at first they were willing to follow along until her brother said its not sinful to live together before marriage and carry on like married people do. Her brother was a leader in the church and he made them feel ok about their sin. There was at leae three times I met with this young couple to encourage them to do the right thing and they refused. In a small church it quite hard to hide such matters and if the pastor just left it alone what would I be saying to the rest of the church about cohabitation? Its tuff, and I glad your son was able to work it out with the pastor. That the difference here, they did not want to work it out. Thanks for sharing

e

[e lansing]

The pastor of my first church was fond of saying "the church is the only organisation that exists for people that are not yet members". It was a highly evangelical church.

This is all well and good but I don't think it is right. The church needs to make disciples, not just be evangelical. Making disciples infers mentoring and raising someone up solid in the faith... discipline... to me it would mean there is a role in the church that is focussed on strengthening existing believers, like this couple.

Just my two cents and no refunds.

Thank you for brightening up my Monday.

I see what you are saying and agree with you to a point, however, 1corinthians 5 shows that Paul, who was also big on discipleship, felt that it was prudant to remove such a christian so not to lose any more disciples. Jus sayin. Thanks for sharing.

e

[~candice~]

The pastor of my first church was fond of saying "the church is the only organisation that exists for people that are not yet members". It was a highly evangelical church.

This is all well and good but I don't think it is right. The church needs to make disciples, not just be evangelical. Making disciples infers mentoring and raising someone up solid in the faith... discipline... to me it would mean there is a role in the church that is focussed on strengthening existing believers, like this couple.

Just my two cents and no refunds.

Thank you for brightening up my Monday.

I see what you are saying and agree with you to a point, however, 1corinthians 5 shows that Paul, who was also big on discipleship, felt that it was prudant to remove such a christian so not to lose any more disciples. Jus sayin. Thanks for sharing.

e

FWIW I agree with you.

[e lansing]

Just a question - Is the church for sinners or for Christians?

I think of Christ eating with the sinners not with the Pharisees. You have no idea what the rest of your congregatiion is doing behind closed doors - are they the real upstanding citizens of the congregation that you think they are? Christ came to save the very ones that you asked to leave your congregation. I would have befriended them and got them to marry as soon as possible. It seems to me that just by asking the question you are not certain that you did the right thing as do others of your congregation. That couple could have been nutured into a ministering couple for your church. Why judge them as harshly as you have? I guess for me the church is for sinners who need to be shown the love of the Father.

I'm going to have to agree with you here, Littlelambs. The church is for EXACTLY people like this young couple. Yes, they sinned but....who hasn't? I would be afraid that tossing them out might turn them from the Lord. Just my two cents and no refunds.

So just because we are sinners all can come to church and do as they please? Are these not already turned from the Lord with their blatant sin? So It would be fine If you went to church and found christians crackin 40oz beers in the common area carring on like its some kind of party? What about if women showed up in string bikinies? Now that pot somkin is legal, why not allow people to twist up, heck let the church provide the papers and pipes with "Jesus loves u" on the box of ziz zags?? WHy not WE ALL HAVE SINNED AND I GUESS WE CANT HELP IT!!! The church has now become the parking lot of every night club in this country! Great! What a way to reach them for Jesus! I digress, Thanks for sharing.

e