removing a church family from church

[e lansing]

Personally, I would disagree with your decision. To be sure, I do not approve of them living together or sowing discontent, I would not consider those offenses that deserve the exile from the body of Christ. I would like to ask a few questions to clarify the situation...

(a) Were the couple having sex?

(b) What were some of the questions people were actually asking you and are you sure the couple actually spread the discontent?

A. Yes because they admitted it to me

B. Yes Im sure because when I confronted them on what I thought they were doing they admitted to me

If the couple were not having sex then it is not adultery or sexually immoral. Living under the same roof happens all the time. Sex before marriage is what is condemned by the Bible, unless I'm mistaken...If the questions only related to cohabitation in general and you have no proof that the couple actually talked to others about this issue then it could have been coincidence.

sex before marriage is what they are doing and living together as a sexually active couple

Also, you say that you went to the pastors after you kicked them out. Are you a pastor as a matter of interest? On what authority did you make the call to throw them out of the church you attend?

yes im the pastor of this church. Scripture is my first authority and it grants me this action. 1 corinthians 5.

Lastly, the Bible tells us first to bring our own grievance before them, and then to bring a group of people before them and then to talk to the authorities/congregation about it. Is it just me or did you skip the last few steps?

I confronted first, then went to my pastor above me and the pastor above him at our mother church, then went to his elder, and got their direction first. This is when some disagreed but all told me to make the finial choice and that they would support me. So then me and my asisstent pastor went to try to councel them, they did not want to hear it. Their presence in the church was a mocking of God and his word, and therefore they needed to be removed.

[e lansing]

[

Your are right you did not say "anything" but anythig is what it is when leadership in achurch chooses not to confront or correct sin in their church. My point still stands, which is as Christians we all have to live by scriptural standards. For those who love God, living by his word is our joy, for those who dont love God, His word means very little. The issue is not if we are sinners or not, yes we are all sinners, but paul and Jesus remove people from churches and temples, not because they were sinners but because they were sinning against God and His establishment for all to see with no regard for God and His establishment. And yes Paul could admitt he was a sinner but also know that as christians we must maintain standards and these standard are there for the protection of the of the flock as well as anyone who chooses to follow them. I am suprised, you do dont get my point or dont see the love in my choice to remove these people. I am not ok with sending the message that sin does not matter. This couple dont care what the bible says about sexual sin, and yet they think they are in good standing with God. Do you think that they would go to heaven under these condidions? I know Im a sinner and Im not perfect, but this does not mean that I can live the way i used to live, nor do i want to, neither does my sinful condition justify my choice to sin. Just because I intend to do the right thing later does not mean Im right at the present time. I think its better to be put out of a church then to be put out of heaven, this what Paul was getting in 1cor 5. I know I did the right thing, some agree and some disagree and this fine, I was just looking for feed back and I got it. Thanks for sharing

e

If you're comfortable with throwing these people out of your church then go forth and rejoice in your conviction. I just happen to believe you were wrong......since you asked for feedback.

I have been thinking about this the last couple of days, and have to ask myself, which of us has not sinned? What if you were the one God chose to lead these 2 to Christ?

I did lead them to christ when they first started coming to the church. Again, its not about us beinging sinners, we are all sinners, however, we as pastors are responsible to maintain a standard for the church. 1 corinthians 5.

[e lansing]

[

Your are right you did not say "anything" but anythig is what it is when leadership in achurch chooses not to confront or correct sin in their church. My point still stands, which is as Christians we all have to live by scriptural standards. For those who love God, living by his word is our joy, for those who dont love God, His word means very little. The issue is not if we are sinners or not, yes we are all sinners, but paul and Jesus remove people from churches and temples, not because they were sinners but because they were sinning against God and His establishment for all to see with no regard for God and His establishment. And yes Paul could admitt he was a sinner but also know that as christians we must maintain standards and these standard are there for the protection of the of the flock as well as anyone who chooses to follow them. I am suprised, you do dont get my point or dont see the love in my choice to remove these people. I am not ok with sending the message that sin does not matter. This couple dont care what the bible says about sexual sin, and yet they think they are in good standing with God. Do you think that they would go to heaven under these condidions? I know Im a sinner and Im not perfect, but this does not mean that I can live the way i used to live, nor do i want to, neither does my sinful condition justify my choice to sin. Just because I intend to do the right thing later does not mean Im right at the present time. I think its better to be put out of a church then to be put out of heaven, this what Paul was getting in 1cor 5. I know I did the right thing, some agree and some disagree and this fine, I was just looking for feed back and I got it. Thanks for sharing

e

If you're comfortable with throwing these people out of your church then go forth and rejoice in your conviction. I just happen to believe you were wrong......since you asked for feedback.

Thats fine, I have 1corinthians 5 to support my choice and you have?

e

[oldzimm]

e lansing you did the right thing, anybody that causes a divide in a congregation has to go and a divided congregation is unhealthy, Of course I hope you did tell them that they can come back if they realize the errors they made. I mean, that is what excommunicating is all about, giving the evicted time to think about what they done and hope they repent.

I don't believe excommunicating is casting someone out the door, thinking they are totally hopeless.

[e lansing]

e lansing you did the right thing, anybody that causes a divide in a congregation has to go and a divided congregation is unhealthy, Of course I hope you did tell them that they can come back if they realize the errors they made. I mean, that is what excommunicating is all about, giving the evicted time to think about what they done and hope they repent.

I don't believe excommunicating is casting someone out the door, thinking they are totally hopeless.

I did tell them that they could come back, but they were so offended that they said they would never come back. I pray for them all that in time their hearts will soften up. I have also learned some things myself through all this and one is the level of humility and trust in God one must have to be a pastor of a church. Think of this, what if you are a pastor and week in week out you preach the word, knowing all your faults and still have to tell others how to more like Christ, correct and redirect as if i am perfect. I thank God that perfection is not the standard God had for His pastors, other wise who would be able to preach or lead a church? This is the point I tried to make to some on this thread. God has His standard, His word, we are called to live by it, and if your lack of living by His word is a disruption or harmful to the church, these must be removed for the sake of the rest of the church. Thanks for sharing

e

[Believer1997]

They were offended by your actions on behalf of the church? How unusual.

Sinners probably don't belong in a church, only the repentent. But, I'm sure they will see the love of Christ one day and repent and probably join a church where they will grow in Grace and feel a part of the Family of Christ.

You had to do what you thought you had to do.... I'm sure your church is safer now that they are gone.

[oldzimm]

They were offended by your actions on behalf of the church? How unusual.

Sinners probably don't belong in a church, only the repentent. But, I'm sure they will see the love of Christ one day and repent and probably join a church where they will grow in Grace and feel a part of the Family of Christ.

You had to do what you thought you had to do.... I'm sure your church is safer now that they are gone.

I'm not trying to stir up an argument sister, but I can't fully agree with that. I think Church is also for sinners who are seeking (if a sinner is in Church, he is seeking). Repentance comes after they found Christ and truly know they have sinned against God.

Think about it, if a person doesn't accept Jesus as lord and savior and repents of a sin, to whom is he repenting to and where is that getting him?

Just a thought.

[ByFaithAlone]

Personally, I would disagree with your decision. To be sure, I do not approve of them living together or sowing discontent, I would not consider those offenses that deserve the exile from the body of Christ. I would like to ask a few questions to clarify the situation...

(a) Were the couple having sex?

(b) What were some of the questions people were actually asking you and are you sure the couple actually spread the discontent?

A. Yes because they admitted it to me

B. Yes Im sure because when I confronted them on what I thought they were doing they admitted to me

If the couple were not having sex then it is not adultery or sexually immoral. Living under the same roof happens all the time. Sex before marriage is what is condemned by the Bible, unless I'm mistaken...If the questions only related to cohabitation in general and you have no proof that the couple actually talked to others about this issue then it could have been coincidence.

sex before marriage is what they are doing and living together as a sexually active couple

Also, you say that you went to the pastors after you kicked them out. Are you a pastor as a matter of interest? On what authority did you make the call to throw them out of the church you attend?

yes im the pastor of this church. Scripture is my first authority and it grants me this action. 1 corinthians 5.

Lastly, the Bible tells us first to bring our own grievance before them, and then to bring a group of people before them and then to talk to the authorities/congregation about it. Is it just me or did you skip the last few steps?

I confronted first, then went to my pastor above me and the pastor above him at our mother church, then went to his elder, and got their direction first. This is when some disagreed but all told me to make the finial choice and that they would support me. So then me and my asisstent pastor went to try to councel them, they did not want to hear it. Their presence in the church was a mocking of God and his word, and therefore they needed to be removed.

Assuming that they were actually spreading discontent and having sex outside of marriage, I can see why you kicked them out but I still probably wouldn't have done it. As Christ said, it is not the healthy that need the doctor but the sick. Driving them away from the chance of confession and repentance might cause them to reject church and God entirely and that is something that I am sure neither of us want. A better course of action would be to ask them to refrain from sex until you marry them. Explain it to them from a Biblical standpoint. Also, ask them not to talk about the issue at church. Ask them to bring any concerns to a pastor, elder or deacon if they feel the need rather than just talking to anyone who will listen.

Again, that's just my opinion...

[Littlelambseativy]

I guess I am struck by the fact that so many feel that the church is meant for 'Christians'. I have never thought that. Where else should an unbeliever find the love of God that Christians experience? In a church that does not preach the gospel? Is that where they will learn of their errors or from godly examples. In Matthew 9:12,13 Jesus says Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick...... For I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

The church if it is not for the sinner it is certainly not for just those who come on Sunday.

I am glad that you told them that they could come back, but to tell you the truth if someone told me that I was not good enough for their church that is the last place that I would go - I would probably not go to ANY church again. Then lost for eternity instead of knowing the love of a forgiving Saviour. It does sadden me that this choice was made but it was and I pray that they will find a loving forgiving church that will show them the love of God so that they do not only see rejection from the body of Christ - the Rapture is so close and eternity looms for this young couple - Heaven or hell?

[e lansing]

I guess I am struck by the fact that so many feel that the church is meant for 'Christians'. I have never thought that. Where else should an unbeliever find the love of God that Christians experience? In a church that does not preach the gospel? Is that where they will learn of their errors or from godly examples.

You fail to understand that we are not talking about non-believers.

In Matthew 9:12,13 Jesus says Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick...... For I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

The church if it is not for the sinner it is certainly not for just those who come on Sunday.

The sickness is our sin. The physician is Christ. The way and the point of this passage is to get people to put their faith in Christ that they may be healed from their sickness or forgiven. Jesus wants them to see the need for faith in Him. The couple we are talking about already believe that Jesus is Lord and have asked Jesus to forgive their sin. Its not about getting to believe in Jesus, they already believe, its the fact that they have no regard for His word, His church, or their sin and being in a small setting in was disruptive to the whole church. Yes we are all sinner, but I bet if you go to your church and your presence is disruptive, you will be confronted. If you submit to their correction things will be as they were, if you continue, you will be ask to leave until you are ready to submit.

I am glad that you told them that they could come back, but to tell you the truth if someone told me that I was not good enough for their church that is the last place that I would go - I would probably not go to ANY church again. Then lost for eternity instead of knowing the love of a forgiving Saviour. It does sadden me that this choice was made but it was and I pray that they will find a loving forgiving church that will show them the love of God so that they do not only see rejection from the body of Christ - the Rapture is so close and eternity looms for this young couple - Heaven or hell?

So im responsible for the choice of others? I believe in Jesus because I chose to, it is NOT dependent on the actions or choices of others. So you think just because you go to church you go to heaven ? Do you really think if this couple were to die in that state, would go to heaven? So you think Jesus would say "ya I understand you could not help your selves, even though I said that fornicators will not inharit the kingdom, come on in ...". You think my church has show a lack of love and forgiveness ? I love them enough to give them the truth and show them love that is found in scripture. I think it would be awlful to think i was a christian all these years because my pastor told me I was and I was never told that my sin was an issue and that my life style had no effect on my salvation and then die and hear the words "depart from me I never knew you". I would rather any day of the week be put out of a church than be put of heaven!

e