Have the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased?

[Nebuchadnezza10]

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

1Kings 18:27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Mark 6:6 He marveled because of their unbelief...

Matthew 13:58 He didn't do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Hebrews 3:19 We see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Jesus is the cure for the curse of unbelief.

I do hope that's not aimed at me!

Edited October 1, 2004 by Nebuchadnezza10

[sail2awe]

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So, we can see that God the Father is Spirit. And furthermore that only those who God the Father calls is able to come to Him.

We may rightly state then, that we can see the workings of the gift of God in the fact we are drawn to Him, with the result of studying God's Word.

does God use the gift of tongues to man anymore? i would say no. no one just begins to speak to various peoples of differing languages [tonges] with the result that every one hears God's Word in their own language as they did when the HS was poured out in Acts 2, and then again to preach to the gentiles later in Acts.

[johnP]

Neb.

Also every healing that was mentioned in the NT was instant.

MK 8:23 He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he had spit on the man's eyes and put his hands on him, Jesus asked, "Do you see anything?"

MK 8:24 He looked up and said, "I see people; they look like trees walking around."

MK 8:25 Once more Jesus put his hands on the man's eyes. Then his eyes were opened, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.

Almost.

Scubuddy.

Yet only one was healed that day.

That is an assumption. You cannot prove that. It might not have been reported is as far as we can go.

None of the apostles had that experience. They never did that at all.

Same again. You cannot prove that. It might not have been recorded. It is not fact. The bible does not say they had the experience is as far as we can go.

Neb.

Also the gifts of the HS are subject to the person with the gift. They choose when they want to use it and when they don

[Nebuchadnezza10]

QUOTE

Also every healing that was mentioned in the NT was instant.

MK 8:23 He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he had spit on the man's eyes and put his hands on him, Jesus asked, "Do you see anything?"

MK 8:24 He looked up and said, "I see people; they look like trees walking around."

MK 8:25 Once more Jesus put his hands on the man's eyes. Then his eyes were opened, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.

What I was saying is that it does not take days or even hours for the healing to take full effect.

QUOTE

Also the gifts of the HS are subject to the person with the gift. They choose when they want to use it and when they don

[sail2awe]

I am assuming that there are still objections to the

[Scudbuddy]

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So, we can see that God the Father is Spirit. And furthermore that only those who God the Father calls is able to come to Him.

We may rightly state then, that we can see the workings of the gift of God in the fact we are drawn to Him, with the result of studying God's Word.

does God use the gift of tongues to man anymore? i would say no. no one just begins to speak to various peoples of differing languages [tonges] with the result that every one hears God's Word in their own language as they did when the HS was poured out in Acts 2, and then again to preach to the gentiles later in Acts.

Actually I know of that happening. A missionary in Costa Rica goes from tribe to tribe in the jungles of Guatemala. Every one with a different dialect. When he enters the village, he understands the dialect, and they understand him. When he leaves, he can no longer understand the dialect, but he goes to a new village, and the same thing happens. Brothers that have went with him have been amazed and confirmed his story.

I myself have had brothers understand every word I said when they didn't speak the language nor I theirs. Sorry, but God is still God of all Languages.

[Scudbuddy]

I am assuming that there are still objections to the

[Scudbuddy]

JohnP Post, (Sorry I do not know how to do all the stuff that distinguishes whose who.)

Scubuddy.

QUOTE

Yet only one was healed that day.

That is an assumption. You cannot prove that. It might not have been reported is as far as we can go.

QUOTE

None of the apostles had that experience. They never did that at all.

Same again. You cannot prove that. It might not have been recorded. It is not fact. The bible does not say they had the experience is as far as we can go.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct! But I am using the standard of presuming that is infamous amongst Cessationist in interpreting the gifts out of the Word. I forget that you have been good about that, compared to many others. But my presumptions are equal to theirs presuming that the "perfect" is gifts, or that only apostles did miracles, or that those who did miracles had to be prayed for by apostles, or that the gifts died with the apostles.

These are all very bad presumptions with no verse in the bible clearly backing it up. They use presumptions to make a verse mean what they want it to mean.

In the meantime, only common sense can tell the reader that a lot of time is spent training the saints to do miracles correctly and have faith for such, only to have no need after the apostles die. Common sense says "Foolishness and Faithlessness." And only presumption backs up their belief.

[Dave123]

Hi Scud.

Those stories aren't lies. I witnessed them with my own eyes....Besides what I have seen, men I know that spend hours in prayer and fasting and are humble men with the fear of God all over them have told me of their own experiences.

Ok scud. Do you always take other people word for it? I don't. You keep listing the experiences of others that cannot be confirmed, and i'll stick to His Word.

You have called all of us liars, yet you have not been where I have been.

I have, right here, right know, only I won't believe as easily as you believe others experiences that you were told about.

With my own eyes I have seen the masses come to Christ after great miracles.

Numbers mean nothing to me. If numbers represented truth, we would all be Muslim because there are more Muslims than any other. And I know you don't believe that Muslim teach the truth. The truth is that I could grow a long spiritual beard, put on a bath robe, go to the beach and tell perople i'm Moses, and have one hundred followers in one hour. When you appeal to the fleshly desires of the world, they will come in droves.

You ever seen the Wind of God blow into a room with the doors and windows shut when we asked for a visitation of the Holy Spirit?

Here is a Charismatic classic. I have the Holy Sprit in me, scud. I understand that the filling, which is different from the baptism (true of all believers), is comanded. Many do not seem to understand this today. It does not have to do with the Holy Spirit filling a empty space, but carries the idea of obedience, be led, being taught, being under the control of the Holy Spirit. This is done through obedience to the Word of God, walking in the Spirit, not in the flesh, abiding in Him. I do not waite to be visited by Him who is in me all the time.

In Jamaica the number one voodoo priestess in all of Trenchtown put curses on me from only a few feet away as I prayed for the sick. It was a power encounter where the soul of the city was being enticed one way or the other. God healed the sick. God won the day.

You present God as being almost helpless. He created all of it, He will decree what will happen with all of it, He is in control. Angels are not running around in heaven yelling "plan B". God is in control. Which brings me to the next quote.

For many in Christendom, it comes down to this. They have a wimpy God who makes excuses for His inactivity with flowery words. My God is a hefty God. No excuses. He actually can do all things just like He claimed in the NT. I choose Him.

Why do you think God is so powerless unless you help. Who has the wimpy God? My God is sovereign over all things, even Satan. He does not need to look into the future and see what choices we made by our own free will and then call it His will and decree, He knows because He ordains it.

And for some reason Cessationist hate it, despise it, deny it, and call it lies. All the while their churches grow smaller, and ours larger.

And in the last days many will be deceived.

In the meantime the Word is very clear about the gifts.

Yes it is, and when you are done telling me about all the "great things", I would like to get back to it please.

I have heard this all before. Scud you sound more like WOF than Pentecostal. I know pentecostals that would call you on some of that stuff you wrote. Are you WOF?

I just noticed your story about Wigglesworth. As a young man in my church, I met an old preacher who as a young man, saw SW in his last years of ministry. Lester Sumrall was his name. He died recently.

With his own eyes he saw things that blow the imagination. Legs growing into shoes where there had been no legs. A man who had been brought to the meeting covered in horribly bloody bandages from a fire. All the people knew of the fire, and knew of this mans condition. After prayer of a rather forceful nature, his skin was like a babys.

I could care less what his critics say of him. They would have been eaten alive by SW in his day. (In a Metaphoric way of course. I got to be careful. The Heresy hunters look for whatever they can use on Pentecostals.)

And you believe all this because someone told you. I rest my case.

God bless

Dave

Edited October 1, 2004 by Dave123

[Dave123]

Hey Dave123, nice to see a new face. (so to speak)

Thank YOU, Neb.

I find what you are saying very interesting. I am gathering that you believe that some of the gifts are still around, and the rest have ceased, right?

If you do believe this it does not make sense. Either all the gifts are gone, or all the gifts are still here. You can

Edited October 1, 2004 by Dave123