Nebuchadnezza10 Posted November 30, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 1 Cor 12 Eagerly desire the greater gifts. 1 Cor 14 Follow the ways of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy... Therefore my brothers, be eager to prophecy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. One confusion I used to have were the instructions from Paul concerning spiritual gifts. Why would one eagerly desire something that was supposed to cease soon anyway? How could one desire a different gift from the one he had been given? You see, from what I had been taught was that the Holy Spirit would administer a gift only directly (Pentecost and Cornelius) and that this happened only twice, or by the laying on of hands (Samaria; John's Disciples). Obviously, the apostle's of our Lord are no longer on this earth, thus leaving only the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which, as I had been led to believe, happened only twice. Of course, you know how doctrines overlap, and this was part of a baptism study. Anywho.. The problem with the verses above is that they suggested that a person could actually receive desired gifts, and that the fullness of the individual gift was not realized at the first sign. That is, just because a person spoke in tongues at the entering of the Holy Spirit did not disqualify them from receiving other gifts later on. James 1 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. If God gave me wisdom, would that be the gift of wisdom? I certainly think so. Though, this might also be interpreted to mean wisdom concerning something. In any case, God gives freely when we ask if we do not doubt and if we "remain in me and my words remain in you (John 15)." It seems to me that anyone who received the Holy Spirit (that is born again) can receive the gifts God has if he askes for it hubertdorm these are some excellent points. My understanding of these vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubertdorm Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 That is possible. I just find it strange that in one letter, Paul tells them to desire the gifts that are temporary, to yearn for them but not to boast of them. No one will be greater than another based on his gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted December 12, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 I can see where you are coming from. It can seem a bit strange at first. If I may uses your statement to answer your question, Paul was telling them to desire the gifts but was also telling them that they were temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubertdorm Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 There are some who believe that tongues is a gift for every believer, a promise. This is certainly way opposite the belief that they don't even exist anymore. Interesting how we use one Bible and yet land on completely different paths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe@actsii Posted January 6, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 193 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/11/1973 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I think that you can have two basic problems with churches/christians (1) when there is to much emphases put only the spirit side of things. This is a major causes of a lot of the crazy stuff we see in some churches and on some of the "religious" TV shows. (2) the other is the flip side when everything is put on the word side of it. The word of God is great, I love it, but with out the Spirit its is dry and powerless. There needs to be both and in balance. I am Holy Ghost filled pentecostal christian, I believe in the gifts and have even been used in some of them, but if somethings is not in line with the word of God, flush it! We need to be in submission. God would never go and or lead against His own word. I think the key word is balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John3;16 Posted January 7, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 274 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/16/1955 Share Posted January 7, 2005 when that which is perfect is come, then that which is part shall be done away with, is that, which is perfect referring to the bible? it would not be referring to the Holy Spirit, because it is through him the gifts were produced, is it referring to when we are changed at the rapture (or resurection in death) when we see Jesus Face to Face? but the following verse 13:13 it reads And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel9601 Posted January 7, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 87 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/05/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2005 I think that you can have two basic problems with churches/christians (1) when there is to much emphases put only the spirit side of things. This is a major causes of a lot of the crazy stuff we see in some churches and on some of the "religious" TV shows. (2) the other is the flip side when everything is put on the word side of it. The word of God is great, I love it, but with out the Spirit its is dry and powerless. There needs to be both and in balance. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroschild Posted January 12, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 79 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2005 First to the original question, I would add fuel to the fire under its thinker: The passage you quoted is in the middle of a discussion on LOVE--maybe it's not about gifts at all? Second, my personal take on spiritual gifts: They do exist, because the gift of teaching, encouragement, etc are still accepted by ALL Christians as still in effect. As for miraculous gifts, who is to say? The thing is, speaking in tongues in often the one spotlighted, and it is clear in this letter that Paul does not consider it to be very important--he says that prophecy is better! 1 Cor. 14:5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. Tongues was always described in two ways, in all passages where it is mentioned: 1. A person is able to speak a language that they have never studied. 2. A person speaks in their own language, but the listener hears them in their own native tongue. Never is it described as a babbling, or uncontrolled utterance: 1 Cor 14:27-28 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest His_Servant Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I agree with whoever said we need to have balance. I only read a few posts, but I know all the reasons others give in an attempt to either prove, or disprove the spiritual gifts are for the church today. I struggled with this for a while, but I really believe the Lord revealed the truth to me one night while I read his word. I won't type out the scripture reference because I believe someone else already mentioned it, BUT....the bible says we prophesy in part...we know in part....that all things done in part will one day cease when that which is perfect is come....when then we shall know even as also we are known. Some people believe this speaks of the completion of the scriptures, but if that were true, why would we even wonder about these things? When that which is perfect has come, we will no longer know things in part....and that definitely hasn't happened yet. I believe that which is perfect is Christ. When Christ returns...when we see him face to face and stand in his Kingdom, THEN we will know even as also we are known. Then, those things done in part for the edification of the body of Christ will have ceased....except for love which abides always. I also do not agree with the argument that the spiritual gifts were only used on the day of Pentecost. Paul wrote a great deal about them in Corinthians, and I cannot understand how he could have had so much knowledge about them IF Pentecost had not already been fufilled. SO, it makes sense to me that his letters to the Corinths were written after the day of Pentecost. If not, why would he have mentioned them at all if they were no longer to be used? There are denominations out there who seem only to be interested in the spiritual side of things...I TOTALLY agree! That really bothers me too, just as it does to see churches that are not concerned with the spiritual side. AGAIN, AMEN to whoever said we need balance. I know there are many who simply refuse to believe the 9 spiritual gifts are for the body of Christ today,but heres what I think: rather than refusing to believe, why not just be open and say, "Lord whatever you have for me, I want and receive thankfully! If what I hear is truth, please show me, and have your way in me." Thats pretty simple to do, and is something we should all be saying to him. GOD BLESS YOU ALL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJohn Posted January 16, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 24 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/05/1981 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I would like to reply to the original question Nebuchadnezza10 asked. I am not the smartest guy on the block, so I can't give greek translations or anything like that, but I believe the answer is a simple one. What the scripture is referring to in saying that the imperfect disappears with the arrival of the perfect, is Christ's return. When that happens, we will be transformed, and have perfect minds. We won't need prophecies and the like, because we will be fully with God at every moment. When Christ (the perfect) returns, our imperfections will disappear. We will receive our glorified forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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