Theological Idolatry

[~candice~]

Sure, it does. But often times it is merely an academic pursuit, the enjoyment of His Word, and the ability to discuss His Word with others at a deeper level. It's not a snobby thing, just a real passion. So if the only "fruit" is time spent enjoying His Word and discussing it with others...

Put it this way, I'm not sure anyone would even know what I have studied, because I do it (mostly) just for me. Does knowledge always puff?

[Isaiah 6:8]

Sure, it does. But often times it is merely an academic pursuit, the enjoyment of His Word, and the ability to discuss His Word with others at a deeper level. It's not a snobby thing, just a real passion. So if the only "fruit" is time spent enjoying His Word and discussing it with others...

Put it this way, I'm not sure anyone would even know what I have studied, because I do it (mostly) just for me. Does knowledge always puff?

No, but pride can be puffed up with knowledge. Its a heart issue. I know many who study the word, in depth because they love it, and like you its a real passion. But many do have a snobby attitude about it, a holier then thou approach. That is what I believe Old Shep is warning about. As he said one of the indications of this pride is that they are know it all's and unteachable. They know everything, you know nothing and you had better not tell them they are wrong, for in there pride they feel like they know everything about God, and you can teach them nothing.

I belive that is the spirit of the op.

In a nutshell I heard it put this way once.

ONLY word you dry up. ONLY Spirit you blow up. You need both. In other words, a person who studies the word and excludes any work of the spirit, does not let the Lord reveal information, may as well be an atheist for the good it does him. They Christ life inside of them dries up.

However a person who ignores the word and goes all spirit tends to led astray in hyper spiritualism, and is easily deceived as they have no anchor in the word.

You need to have both the word and the spirit.

[Guest yod]

Apologies to any Greeks here who might not understand the Yod humour

Hey, it's not a joke!?

The only humor intended is that some people around here are probably tired of hearing me say it. But this is the most complete answer to the OP, though I can see that not many here understand what I'm saying. And btw, it has nothing to with being from Greece since the greek spirit actually comes from the island of Crete. (I have now started a new thread to explain without derailing this one.)

There is nothing wrong at all with studying and gaining knowledge, yet (godly) wisdom is in how that knowledge is applied.

Out of Germany comes what I believe is the most important Christian book written in the last 50 years....maybe ever.

This book, "The Veil of Silence" addresses the question posed better than any. Unfortunately, it's not in English until December...

http://www.tos.info/tos-medienshop/index.php?page=product&info=1123

[Guest]

Just wondering, why so many fights happen between believers over the Word of God!

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What

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Is The Difference

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

Between The Family

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

Worship Of LORD God Almighty

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

And The Usurpation

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 1:3-4

Of His Authority

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[mizzdy]

Apologies to any Greeks here who might not understand the Yod humour

Hey, it's not a joke!?

The only humor intended is that some people around here are probably tired of hearing me say it. But this is the most complete answer to the OP, though I can see that not many here understand what I'm saying. And btw, it has nothing to with being from Greece since the greek spirit actually comes from the island of Crete.

There is nothing wrong at all with studying and gaining knowledge, yet (godly) wisdom is in how that knowledge is applied.

Out of Germany comes what I believe is the most important Christian book written in the last 50 years....maybe ever.

This book, "The Veil of Silence" addresses the question posed better than any. Unfortunately, it's not in English until December...

http://www.tos.info/tos-medienshop/index.php?page=product&info=1123

I have to agree with Yod here, most read scriptures from the greek/western mindset and that is not how our Messiah nor the apostles thought. Sure there were greek thinking Jews and gentiles around but scriptures are best understood from the hebraic mindset, way too many things are missed without understanding that.

I also think that theology, schools and schools of it really don't help with the plain understanding of the message given to us in scripture. The earliest rabbis, those men had like 5 or 6 books to their name, what they had was Torah, Gods Words and what they gleaned and understood was pretty remarkable and we also can see that in Paul since he got his education sitting at their feet. Paul sat at the greatest teachers of his time yet even then he didn't understand until Yeshua blinded him and he saw the Messiah for the first time, it was only then that Paul was taught the whole truth of Messiah, by the Messiah Himself and the Holy Spirit. Most these days see theology as going to school to learn all about textual critism, those things, theology to me is studying scriptures. Education is a good thing but too much of it can leave one knowing tons of stuff thats not really that important in the grand scheme of things, I have two brothers that is proof of that.

[OneLight]

I have come to believe that there are a set few people here who really understand the difference of the Hebrew and Greek ways of looking at scripture, and I have asked in the past so I could also have an understanding. My understanding is very basic, so I am asking that those of you who have actually taken the time to research the difference to post them so the readers will have the same understanding. We all to many times just hear that many have a Grecian mindset, in a condemning way, and the debate begins. This is counter productive. Will someone who truly understands either post a link to where this has been, or is being discussed, or take the time to enlighten those of us who would like to understand more about the conflict between the two?

[Guest]

I have come to believe that there are a set few people here who really understand the difference of the Hebrew and Greek ways of looking at scripture, and I have asked in the past so I could also have an understanding. My understanding is very basic, so I am asking that those of you who have actually taken the time to research the difference to post them so the readers will have the same understanding. We all to many times just hear that many have a Grecian mindset, in a condemning way, and the debate begins. This is counter productive. Will someone who truly understands either post a link to where this has been, or is being discussed, or take the time to enlighten those of us who would like to understand more about the conflict between the two?

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index.php?/topic/144500-and-also-to-the-greek/

[Guest shiloh357]

Theological Idolatry

My definition,

1: The study of God's word to the point of losing sight ofGod Grace and Mercy; to the Idea of being seen as personally right.

2: The hauling of God word down to earth , boxing it up intothe minds of man.

3: Worshiping knowledge and self over that of the Creator.

Well Dennis,

The problem is not theology. It never has been, despite what other say. The first two issues do not really come under the heading of "idolatry." The third value does tend to appear to be idolatry, but that does not stem from theology, but from a heart that is not right with God and I would venture to say is a not a believer. Idolatry comes from a lack of proper theological training and possibly from an unregenerate heart, and not from a solid, knowledgeable foundation in the Scriptures.

There is a difference between believing that you are "right" in everything you say, and simply having confidence in the rightness or accuracy of your claims/assertions. Often confidence is misread as arroagance or a lack of grace, but if you really believe what you have is the truth, then challenges or questions should not threaten you. If what I say is true, I have no problem with fielding questions or challenges.

The second value you present is interesting because it seems to me that some Christians burn the candle at both ends. They repudiate some teachers on the grounds that they don't listen to the "words of man's wisdom." You get that a lot even here the boards. Granted, THEY expect to be heard. They post THEIR opinions and expect othres to listen to them. They stick their self-righteous snoots in the the air and condemn "the teachings of men." For some reason they don't think their opinions and words fit under the heading of "man's wisdom" because of course, THEY are listening to the Holy Spirit and no one who studies theology has a relationship with God or knows the Bible or has the Holy Spirit and are just hot air and wind bags full of man's wisdom. There are some people who have God put in a box, but they are not ususally the trained theologians. It is usually people who have a marginal understanding of God's ways who end up putting him in a box. It ususally stems from a lack of any fellowship with God, not from theology or from having an education.

Ignorance is not a virtue and it is nothing to be proud of. Being less educated does not translate into being more spiritual. The book of Proverbs tells us that God places a very high premimum on both knowledge and wisdom. Being more spiritual or less spiritual stems from your lack of time with God. It stems from a neglect of prayer, biblestudy, and any other meaningful mode of fellowship. We are commanded to love God with all of heart, mind and strength. That means that the development of the intellect is as spiritual a discpline as any other aspect of our walk with God. He created us in His image with an intellect and the development and renewal of our minds in the Scriptures is the most worthy of intellectual pursuits. That includes availing ouselves of the teachers that God has sent and anointed over the ages with knowledge and wisdom in His Scriptures. What some people want to do is keep theologians in an encasement on their wall that has a sign that reads: "In Case of Theologcial/Biblical Question, Break Glass" and then put them back on the wall once they have outstayed their welcome.

Just wondering, why so many fights happen between believers over the Word of God!

I will tell you what I tell everyone who asks about that:

First of all, many people don’t understand the difference between how a verse is intepreted and how it is applied or ministered. A certain passage may minister to John in a way that meets a particular need in his life and the same passage ministers to Bob to meet a unique need that he is facing. They view the same passage differently, but neither is wrong. Unfortunately, because they don't know the difference between interpetation and application, they end up disagreening needlessly over how the Scriptures were applied to their life.

Secondly, we all have a paradigm that effects how we view the world around us and how we interpret events and especially how we approach the Bible. We are to some degree a product of the environment we were raised in and the people who influenced or impacted our lives for the better or for the worse. Not everyone had an ideal childhood and if they grew up with an abusive father, they may have issues with the Bible’s depiction of the fatherhood of God. Two people can apporach the same passage of Scripture and walk away with two different perspectives, not because the actualy data was different but because the perceptions they brought to the data determined what they would take away from it.

Thirdly, some people come to the Bible with an agenda. They have a belief or belief system and they are hell bent on forcing the Bible to accommodate this belief or set of beliefs. They redefine key biblical terms, reject key doctrines contained in the Scriptures and seek to impose cocepts and ideologies that are foreign to a biblical/Christan worldview. They are not seeking the truth, but seek to make the Bible servant to their whims.

That is, in part, why we need an objective system of hermeneutics to cut through the subjective, emotional issues that people bring to the Bible. Not that those things should be ignored or not dealt with, but sometimes they cloud our perceptions.

[OneLight]

I have come to believe that there are a set few people here who really understand the difference of the Hebrew and Greek ways of looking at scripture, and I have asked in the past so I could also have an understanding. My understanding is very basic, so I am asking that those of you who have actually taken the time to research the difference to post them so the readers will have the same understanding. We all to many times just hear that many have a Grecian mindset, in a condemning way, and the debate begins. This is counter productive. Will someone who truly understands either post a link to where this has been, or is being discussed, or take the time to enlighten those of us who would like to understand more about the conflict between the two?

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index.php?/topic/144500-and-also-to-the-greek/

Please don't just post a link for us to wade through and sort out.

Please summarize it in easy-to-understand points.

I asked for a link and it was provided. This thread that the link brings us to is one that just began and requires participation to fulfill its value. It cannot be "summarized".

[OneLight]

I have come to believe that there are a set few people here who really understand the difference of the Hebrew and Greek ways of looking at scripture, and I have asked in the past so I could also have an understanding. My understanding is very basic, so I am asking that those of you who have actually taken the time to research the difference to post them so the readers will have the same understanding. We all to many times just hear that many have a Grecian mindset, in a condemning way, and the debate begins. This is counter productive. Will someone who truly understands either post a link to where this has been, or is being discussed, or take the time to enlighten those of us who would like to understand more about the conflict between the two?

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index.php?/topic/144500-and-also-to-the-greek/

Please don't just post a link for us to wade through and sort out.

Please summarize it in easy-to-understand points.

I asked for a link and it was provided. This thread that the link brings us to is one that just began and requires participation to fulfill its value. It cannot be "summarized".

That will be the first thing in print that cannot be summarized.

Every book in the Bible can be summarized, but this cannot?

To try and summarize a work in process is only trying to summarize what has already been written and, at best, is incomplete. The Bible is complete and therefore can be summarized.