What does The Bible say?

[Guest daretospeak]

My intention is not to bring confusion but to shed some light on a few passages of scripture.

First of all let us understand that 2 Peter 1:20 says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

I do not seek to have my words believed, I seek for you to believe the Word of God.

What I will bring to the forefront are various scriptures that say exactly what they say.

Let me also add this scripture, 2 Timothy 4:3-5, "3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

We are to guard the word of Truth passionately!

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

This scripture clearly states that, "no man hath ascended up to heaven". These are the words of Jesus.....and to teach that there are people in Heaven is calling Jesus a liar.

We can see in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 that those who have "died" have fallen asleep.....Christians have fallen asleep in Christ, that is....In being one with Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The dead in Christ shall rise first........this clearly says that those who have "died" are not in Heaven yet!

How can anyone enter into Heaven before Judgment has taken place???

When Christ returns, The dead in Christ will rise first.....then those who remain.

Lets look at 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10, "9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

To believe anything other than what the bible says is believing a lie........do not love the lie.

Search for truth........ask for it! Don't believe what other men say........believe what Jesus says.

Discuss.

[~candice~]

This appears to be soul sleep

Where does the body go between death and the resurrection? The spirit? The soul? Spell it out so I know your argument.

What do you do with this?

Php 1:19 For I know that this will result in deliverance to me through your petition and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, Job 13:16

Php 1:20 according to my earnest expectation and hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but as always in all boldness even now Christ will be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death.

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this to me is fruit of my labor, and what I shall choose I do not know.

Php 1:23 For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better,

Php 1:24 but to remain in the flesh is more necessary on account of you.

[Guest daretospeak]

This appears to be soul sleep

Where does the body go between death and the resurrection? The spirit? The soul? Spell it out so I know your argument.

The body goes to the grave......The spirit is asleep in Christ.

If the Christian spirit goes to Heaven, then it must be said that the heathen spirit goes to Hell.......this implies that Judgment has taken place......but we know that Judgment occurs after the return of Jesus.

Dont take my word for it....ask God.

[RigMedic]

What about Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment

[Guest]

What about 2 Cor 5:6-8?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

[OldShep]

What about 2 Cor 5:6-8?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I have Faith that when this body dies my soul will be present with the Lord in Heaven. My Faith this based on the above and:

Eph 2:8-10NIV For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— (9) not by works, so that no one can boast. (10) For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

2Co 12:2-5NIV I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. (3) And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— (4) was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. (5) I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.

ICL Dennis

[Guest daretospeak]

What about Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment

Look at the preceding verses Hebrews 9:26--27 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

Once that is fulfilled, i.e. once every man that ever will be has died.....then Judgment.

[nebula]

My intention is not to bring confusion but to shed some light on a few passages of scripture.

First of all let us understand that 2 Peter 1:20 says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

I do not seek to have my words believed, I seek for you to believe the Word of God.

What I will bring to the forefront are various scriptures that say exactly what they say.

I hate it when new people come on board with this type of declaration. It shows they are more interested in their agenda than in fellowship with the Body. Le sigh.

[Guest daretospeak]

What about 2 Cor 5:6-8?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

This is another scripture that is carelessly flung around by Christians.

Most think that this verse says...."To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" How many times have you heard it said like that???

Well the truth of this scripture is not what most paraphrase it as saying.

Lets look close at what it actually says and even closer at the words used.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

I would rather be absent ("rather to be absent") so I could be ("and to be") present with the Lord........showing that it is futuristic in its meaning.

Once again, read it exactly for what it says not what you have been taught what it says.

[Guest daretospeak]

What about 2 Cor 5:6-8?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I have Faith that when this body dies my soul will be present with the Lord in Heaven. My Faith this based on the above and:

Eph 2:8-10NIV For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— (9) not by works, so that no one can boast. (10) For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

2Co 12:2-5NIV I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. (3) And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— (4) was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. (5) I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.

ICL Dennis

That's nice......but He didn't enter Heaven.