What ELSE Happens at the Gathering of the Saints?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

You need to go to verse 19 (Matt 24:19) - How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. The condition is that it will be; One is to pray that there flight will not happen in winter or on the Sabbath. Then there will be great distress.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Nah, that's too far back. Verse 19 says that it WILL be dreadful for pregnant women and those who are breastfeeding in those days, and it WAS! Even a Roman, although generally more civilized than the Persians or the Seleucid Macedonians, could be inhumane if agitated sufficiently, and they were during the siege of Yerushalayim. They would rip up pregnant women and dash babies against the rocks! It was BAD, as BAD as a heathen could do to another. It was DEFINITELY a "thlipsis!"

However, it could have been WORSE! If the observant Jews, believers or not, had to try to escape Yerushalayim during the rainy season or on the Holy Shabbat, when they could only travel as far as Har haZeitiym (the Mount of Olives) without violating the Law, many more would have died! So, Yeshua` told His disciples (in verse 20) to pray that they NOT have to escape under those conditions! They must have so prayed, because history records that they did NOT have to escape under those conditions, and the "thlipsis megalee" was avoided! THAT'S IT! That is all for that specific part of His prophecy! It's over and done with! While there's still plenty of His prophecy that had not been fulfilled at that time, that ONE PARTICULAR POINT was as fulfilled as it was going to get! THEREFORE, we just need to DROP that portion of His prophecy and focus on the parts that have NOT yet been fulfilled! Understand?

The same can be said for large portions of Dani'el's book: The prophecies therein have largely been fulfilled - the prophecies of Bavel (Babylon), Medo-Persia, Greece (or rather, Macedonia), and the Seleucid Empire, with the atrocities of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and the reactionary movements of Judas Maccabees and his brothers, and the Roman Empire were all FULFILLED! And, once those prophecies were fulfilled, they need to be "marked off our list" of Prophecies Yet to be Fulfilled, and we need to focus on WHAT IS LEFT!

I hope you can learn to accept that.

[Montana Marv]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

You need to go to verse 19 (Matt 24:19) - How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. The condition is that it will be; One is to pray that there flight will not happen in winter or on the Sabbath. Then there will be great distress.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Nah, that's too far back. Verse 19 says that it WILL be dreadful for pregnant women and those who are breastfeeding in those days, and it WAS! Even a Roman, although generally more civilized than the Persians or the Seleucid Macedonians, could be inhumane if agitated sufficiently, and they were during the siege of Yerushalayim. They would rip up pregnant women and dash babies against the rocks! It was BAD, as BAD as a heathen could do to another. It was DEFINITELY a "thlipsis!"

However, it could have been WORSE! If the observant Jews, believers or not, had to try to escape Yerushalayim during the rainy season or on the Holy Shabbat, when they could only travel as far as Har haZeitiym (the Mount of Olives) without violating the Law, many more would have died! So, Yeshua` told His disciples (in verse 20) to pray that they NOT have to escape under those conditions! They must have so prayed, because history records that they did NOT have to escape under those conditions, and the "thlipsis megalee" was avoided! THAT'S IT! That is all for that specific part of His prophecy! It's over and done with! While there's still plenty of His prophecy that had not been fulfilled at that time, that ONE PARTICULAR POINT was as fulfilled as it was going to get! THEREFORE, we just need to DROP that portion of His prophecy and focus on the parts that have NOT yet been fulfilled! Understand?

The same can be said for large portions of Dani'el's book: The prophecies therein have largely been fulfilled - the prophecies of Bavel (Babylon), Medo-Persia, Greece (or rather, Macedonia), and the Seleucid Empire, with the atrocities of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and the reactionary movements of Judas Maccabees and his brothers, and the Roman Empire were all FULFILLED! And, once those prophecies were fulfilled, they need to be "marked off our list" of Prophecies Yet to be Fulfilled, and we need to focus on WHAT IS LEFT!

I hope you can learn to accept that.

Roy

I can't accept as past something that has not yet happened. This is future, after the A/D is set up in the temple, then flee, then the great distress; immediately following this great distress is the Second Coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Look, it's not that complicated: When Yeshua` spoke the words recorded for us in Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, ALL of the events of which He spoke were in HIS AND THEIR FUTURE! However, from our perspective, some of what He said is now in OUR PAST while some is still in OUR FUTURE! Even if the passage has been fulfilled, I can't change the fact that it was originally recorded as being in THEIR future! Therefore, the words will ALWAYS read, "it will be," even though now we would rather say of fulfilled events, "it was!"

One cannot just look at the three dimensions of length, width, and depth when reading the Scriptures! While there may be some Scriptures that are universal and constant in all generations, there are other Scriptures that are TIME-DEPENDENT! We must also include the fourth dimension in our look at their fulfillment! That's where the importance of human history comes into play! YES! All of what God said would happen will happen! But, has some of it happened already? THAT'S the important question!

Just as some of the prophecies of Dani'el's book have already been fulfilled, such as those of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Dan. 11, so in the Olivet Discourse some of Yeshua`s prophecies have also already been fulfilled!

And, how can I help you to see that the "abomination of desolation" was NOT some idol set up somewhere inside the Temple but that the desolation itself WAS the abomination? Please remember that the chapter and verse divisions in an English Bible didn't exist until the Geneva Bible in 1560 and chapter divisions weren't seen in the Greek New Testament until the early 13th century! So, let's look at the Olivet Discourse as it relates to the desolation of Isra'el:

Matt 23:37-24:2

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

KJV

Can you see how the prophecy followed right on the heels of the pronouncement of desolation? Forty years later, the desolation began, and it was devastating and disheartening - an abomination - to the Jews to see the destruction of Yerushalayim and the Temple!

[Montana Marv]

Roy

Israel was desolate before Christs Ministry, as it was afterwards, as most of it is today.

And, how can I help you to see that the "abomination of desolation" was NOT some idol set up somewhere inside the Temple but that the desolation itself WAS the abomination? Please remember that the chapter and verse divisions in an English Bible didn't exist until the Geneva Bible in 1560 and chapter divisions weren't seen in the Greek New Testament until the early 13th century! So, let's look at the Olivet Discourse as it relates to the desolation of Isra'el:

Your statement here, shows me how far off base your response is: the "abomination that causes desolation' now becomes, "the desolate itself WAS the abomination?

That is not what Christ quoted from Daniel: Christ said; When you see standing (something which is upright) in the Holy Place (location, Christ never was here physically), the abomination WHICH causes desolation (you had it backwards), spoken of through the prophet Daniel, Let the reader understand, Then let those who are in Judea FLEE to the mountains v. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. v.20 - Pray that your flight (FLEEING, from verse 16) will not happen in winter or the Sabbath. v.21 - For then there will be Great Distress, Unequaled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equaled again. v.29 Immediately after the distress of those days (the Second Coming).

If one looks at it from the reverse: The Second Coming follows immediately after the distress of those days (Great Distress), This Great Distress follows after the FLEEING; and the FLEEING follows - When you see standing in the holy place the abomination which causes desolation.

This is ALL in our future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

Israel was desolate before Christ's Ministry, as it was afterwards, as most of it is today.

No, Marv, they were RICH and FULL when Yeshua` was there! They had great opportunity and a great promise of the impending Kingdom with the presence of haMelekh, the KING! All they had to do was what He said to them after Yochanan was put in prison, "Repent and believe the gospel!" or "Change your thinking 180 degrees and believe the good news (which you already know from Isa. 52:7)!" They were not desolate at the time until Yeshua` gave up on them in Matt. 23:38. Just what do you think "desolate" means, anyway?

And, how can I help you to see that the "abomination of desolation" was NOT some idol set up somewhere inside the Temple but that the desolation itself WAS the abomination? Please remember that the chapter and verse divisions in an English Bible didn't exist until the Geneva Bible in 1560 and chapter divisions weren't seen in the Greek New Testament until the early 13th century! So, let's look at the Olivet Discourse as it relates to the desolation of Isra'el:

Your statement here, shows me how far off base your response is: the "abomination that causes desolation' now becomes, "the desolate itself WAS the abomination?

That is not what Christ quoted from Daniel: Christ said; When you see standing (something which is upright) in the Holy Place (location, Christ never was here physically), the abomination WHICH causes desolation (you had it backwards), spoken of through the prophet Daniel, Let the reader understand, Then let those who are in Judea FLEE to the mountains v. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. v.20 - Pray that your flight (FLEEING, from verse 16) will not happen in winter or the Sabbath. v.21 - For then there will be Great Distress, Unequaled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equaled again. v.29 Immediately after the distress of those days (the Second Coming).

It's not backwards; it's BOTH! <Sigh> Look at Dan. 9:27 again:

Dan. 9:27

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

KJV

THEIR abominations (rejecting the Messiah) were spreading out like a wing and FOR those abominations, HE MADE IT DESOLATE! And, in turn, that desolation was "abominable" to the Jews - "the abomination OF [the] desolation!" In some mathematical symbolism,

abominationS (to God, performed BY the Jews) --> desolation (of Isra'el) --> abomination (TO the Jews)!

If one looks at it from the reverse: The Second Coming follows immediately after the distress of those days (Great Distress), This Great Distress follows after the FLEEING; and the FLEEING follows - When you see standing in the holy place the abomination which causes desolation.

This is ALL in our future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The "Great Distress," or "thlipsis megalee" ("great pressure"), IS in the future, too, but it started LONG ago in the first century when Yeshua` said, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate," and it's been desolate ever since! It will remain desolate "UNTIL the consummation," and everything that was "determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Yeshua` said to them,

Matt 23:39

... Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

KJV

It's that simple. The "Great Distress" is NOT limited to 7 years! It's been almost 2,000 years!

Now, you're right when you said, "v.29 Immediately after the distress of those days (the Second Coming)." That's PRECISELY what Yeshua` stated:

Matt. 24:29-30

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

KJV

That's why the "Great Distress" CANNOT be limited to a mere 7 years! The "Great Distress" DOES NOT EQUAL the "70th Seven" of Dani'el 9:24-27!

[Guest]

It's that simple. The "Great Distress" is NOT limited to 7 years! It's been almost 2,000 years!.... That's why the "Great Distress" CANNOT be limited to a mere 7 years! The "Great Distress" DOES NOT EQUAL the "70th Seven" of Dani'el 9:24-27!

Distress

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. Hebrew 11:4

Started A Lot Longer

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. Genesis 4:8

Than Two Thousand Years Ago

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

(Of whom the world was not worthy: ) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. Hebrews 11:32-38

But There Is A Day.....

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth. Zephaniah 1:18 (NASB 1995)

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, FresnoJoe.

It's that simple. The "Distress" is NOT limited to 7 years! It's been almost 2,000 years!.... That's why the "Distress" CANNOT be limited to a mere 7 years! The "Distress" DOES NOT EQUAL the "70th Seven" of Dani'el 9:24-27!

Distress

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. Hebrew 11:4

Started A Lot Longer

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. Genesis 4:8

Sorry, bro', but I can't let this go: What Yeshua` was talking about as a "Distress" (and I would like to edit my own statement in the above; I was using Montana Marv's words of "Great Distress," but it was just a "distress" or "pressure" that Yeshua` was talking about in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, not a "great distress" or a "great pressure") in the Olivet Discourse is NOT something that has been around since Cain and Abel (Qayin and Hevel)! It was a FRESH "distress" or "pressure" generated when Yeshua` left the Jews' house "desolate!" It was unlike ANYTHING that the Jews had suffered before!

At first, they were supposed to take the hint from Isra'el's (the northern Kingdom's) demise; then they were supposed to take the hint from their own 70 years of captivity! Then, they had to wait 483 years for God's Messiah, their King Apparent, to arrive! NOW, who knows how much time it will take before they learn to accept GOD'S choice for their King instead of their own attempts at self-government?!

Than Two Thousand Years Ago

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

(Of whom the world was not worthy: ) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. Hebrews 11:32-38

Hebrews 11 was written by an author who was speaking to the ISRA'ELIYM - the Isra'elis or "Isra'elites," particularly those of the tribe of Y'hudah - the Jews, and of those, particularly those of the Diaspora, when they were scattered by the Romans throughout the Empire! He is NOT talking about the "Distress" that the Jews would experience from Yeshua`s time on that Yeshua` was talking about in the Olivet Discourse of Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21! Therefore, his points were limited to the ancestors of the people to whom He was talking. He was not talking to all the nations of the earth.

I am not talking about the last 6000+ years, just the last 2000 years since Yeshua` pronounced "desolation" on them!

But There Is A Day.....

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth. Zephaniah 1:18 (NASB 1995)

And, Ts'fanyahu (Zephaniah) was talking to the JEWS OF HIS DAY! He was a prophet in the days of king Yo'shiyahu (Josiah), prior to the first captivity of Y'hudah (Judah) to Nebuchadnezzar. Thus, your version of Zeph. 1:18 is TOO NEBULOUS - TOO GENERAL! Read it again in, say, the Complete Jewish Bible, for instance:

Tz’fanyah (ZEPHANIAH)

1 1 This is the word of Adonai that came to Tz’fanyah the son of Kushi, the son of G’dalyah, the son of Amaryah, the son of Hizkiyah, during the reign of Yoshiyahu the son of Amon, king of Y’hudah:

2 “I will completely sweep away everything

off the face of the land,” says Adonai.

3 “I will sweep away humans and animals,

the birds in the air and the fish in the sea,

also the wicked and what makes them stumble;

I will wipe humanity off the land,” says Adonai.

4 “I will stretch out my hand over Y’hudah

and all those living in Yerushalayim.

I will wipe every remnant of Ba‘al from this place,

the idol-serving priests and even their names,

5 those worshipping heaven’s army on the roofs,

also those who worship and swear by Adonai

but swear by Malkam as well,

6 those who turned away from following Adonai,

and those who haven’t sought Adonai

or consulted him at all.”

7 Keep silent before Adonai Elohim,

for the Day of Adonai is near.

Adonai has prepared a sacrifice;

he has set apart those he invited.

8 When the time comes for Adonai’s sacrifice —

“I will punish the leaders

and the sons of the king,

also those who dress in foreign clothes.

9 On the same day I will also punish

all who jump over the threshold

to fill the house of their master

with violence and deceit.

10 Also on that day,” says Adonai,

“a cry will be heard from the Fish Gate,

wailing from the city’s Second Quarter

and a loud crash from the hills.

11 Wail, you who live down in the hollow,

because all the merchants are destroyed,

all who trade with silver are ruined.

12 When that time comes, I will search

Yerushalayim with lamps

and punish those who are [smug and thick,

like wine] left too long on its dregs,

who say to themselves, ‘Adonai will do nothing —

neither good nor bad.’

13 For this, their wealth will be plundered;

and their houses will be destroyed.

Yes, they will build houses but not live in them;

they will plant vineyards but not drink the wine.”

14 The great Day of Adonai is near,

near and coming very quickly;

Hear the sound of the Day of Adonai!

When it’s here, even a warrior will cry bitterly.

15 That Day is a Day of fury,

a Day of trouble and distress,

a Day of waste and desolation,

a Day of darkness and gloom,

a Day of clouds and thick fog,

16 a Day of the shofar and battle-cry

against the fortified cities

and against the high towers [on the city walls].

17 “I will bring such distress on people

that they will grope their way like the blind,

because they have sinned against Adonai.

Their blood will be poured out like dust

and their bowels like dung.

18 Neither their silver nor their gold

will be able to save them.

On the day of Adonai’s fury,

the whole land will be destroyed

in the fire of his jealousy.

For he will make an end, a horrible end,

of all those living in the land.”

CJB

See how the context changes things? It's not "all the earth" and "all the inhabitants of the earth," but rather "the whole land" and "all those living in the land!" The Hebrew word there is " 'erets" and its PRIMARY MEANING in the Tanakh (the OT) is the Land of Isra'el.

[Montana Marv]

Roy

Where do come up with that it is just a "distress".

Your quote from above: Sorry, bro', but I can't let this go: What Yeshua` was talking about as a "Distress" (and I would like to edit my own statement in the above; I was using Montana Marv's words of "Great Distress," but it was just a "distress" or "pressure" that Yeshua` was talking about in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, not a "great distress" or a "great pressure") in the Olivet Discourse is NOT something that has been around since Cain and Abel (Qayin and Hevel)! It was a FRESH "distress" or "pressure" generated when Yeshua` left the Jews' house "desolate!" It was unlike ANYTHING that the Jews had suffered before!

You have just misquoted Matt 24:21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equaled again.

This great distress will be worse than the flood which killed all except Noah and his family. It will be worse that Hitler killing over 6 million Jews. Yes, FresnoJoe is right, it started at the beginning. So he can go back to Cain and Abel. This is not fresh distress as you put it. This is a future "great distress" - for this is a pouring out of the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgments upon the whole earth. And they repented not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[rollinTHUNDER]

Sorry, bro', but I can't let this go: What Yeshua` was talking about as a "Distress" (and I would like to edit my own statement in the above; I was using Montana Marv's words of "Great Distress," but it was just a "distress" or "pressure" that Yeshua` was talking about in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, not a "great distress" or a "great pressure") in the Olivet Discourse is NOT something that has been around since Cain and Abel (Qayin and Hevel)! It was a FRESH "distress" or "pressure" generated when Yeshua` left the Jews' house "desolate!" It was unlike ANYTHING that the Jews had suffered before!

At first, they were supposed to take the hint from Isra'el's (the northern Kingdom's) demise; then they were supposed to take the hint from their own 70 years of captivity! Then, they had to wait 483 years for God's Messiah, their King Apparent, to arrive! NOW, who knows how much time it will take before they learn to accept GOD'S choice for their King instead of their own attempts at self-government?!

Hi Retrobyter,

From reading your version, it appears that you are saying that the desolation is the distress or tribulation, but the desolation is actually the end result of the Roman armies sacking Jerusalem, destroying the temple and scattering the Jews, leaving Jerusalem desolate. This was fulfilled in 70 AD, but it is not the future tribulation.

You also appear to minimize this future tribulation/great tribulation, assuming that it has already been fulfilled in the first century. Not even close, my friend. Everything from Matthew 24:15 all the way through chapter 25 still lies in the future. This great tribulation, a time so troubling the world has never seen anything like it before now, and never will again. You cannot minimize it without forcing yourself waaaay out of bounds. The Roman armies on horseback in the 1st century wasn't as horrible as WWII, yet WWII will look like a picnic compared to the future tribulation, when God will gather (all) nations against Jerusalem at the time of the end. No war in the history of man will be able to compare to the one that lies ahead (Armageddon).

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

Where do come up with that it is just a "distress".

Your quote from above: Sorry, bro', but I can't let this go: What Yeshua` was talking about as a "Distress" (and I would like to edit my own statement in the above; I was using Montana Marv's words of "Great Distress," but it was just a "distress" or "pressure" that Yeshua` was talking about in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, not a "great distress" or a "great pressure") in the Olivet Discourse is NOT something that has been around since Cain and Abel (Qayin and Hevel)! It was a FRESH "distress" or "pressure" generated when Yeshua` left the Jews' house "desolate!" It was unlike ANYTHING that the Jews had suffered before!

You have just misquoted Matt 24:21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equaled again.

And, here we go 'round again!

NO! Matthew 24:21 is INCOMPLETE without Matthew 24:20! It is a CONDITIONAL STATEMENT!!! (Why is this so hard for you to understand?) IF they did not pray (that their flight not be in the rainy season or on the Shabbat), THEN there would be GREAT TRIBULATION (such as was not since the beginning of the Creation, no, nor ever shall be)! But, they DID pray as instructed! THEREFORE, the GREAT TRIBULATION that Yeshua` was talking about WAS AVOIDED!!!

And, back at ya'! If YOU quote Matthew 24:21 without also quoting Matthew 24:20, then YOU are misquoting Yeshua` because you're not delivering a complete thought!

This great distress will be worse than the flood which killed all except Noah and his family. It will be worse that Hitler killing over 6 million Jews. Yes, FresnoJoe is right, it started at the beginning. So he can go back to Cain and Abel. This is not fresh distress as you put it. This is a future "great distress" - for this is a pouring out of the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgments upon the whole earth. And they repented not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Look, one more time, I do NOT say that there will not be a "great distress" in the future; there WILL be such a "great distress," but its prophecy does NOT come from Matthew 24 (or Mark 13 or Luke 21)! Yeshua` was not talking about that time when He used the words "thlipsis megalee!" However, such a "great distress" IS recorded in Revelation 7:14, and THAT is what one should use to support such a "great distress."

In the Messiah's love,

Roy