Interesting things about "antichrist"

[Bold Believer]

I hope you don’t mind me slipping in here on at least one point.

I have seen it mentioned that Jesus never spoke about the antichrist, but Mathews 24 is all about Rev 6.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you?

No problem. Matthew 24 is about the Days of Vengeance. If you read Luke 21, it is a parallel passage which mentions things that neither Matthew nor Mark do. I didn't equate Matthew 24 with Revelation 6.

Thanks for response so quick.

let me post an example or two by comparing Math 24 v Rev 6

Christ foretells the destruction of the temple

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them,[/color] See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matt 24:1-5 (KJV)

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; (toxon) and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6:1-2 (KJV)

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt 24:6-7 (KJV)

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword Rev 6:3-4 (KJV)

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt 24:7 (KJV)

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Rev 6:5-6 (KJV)

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt 24:7 (KJV)

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Rev 6:7-8 (KJV)

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together

Matt 24:7-28 (KJV)

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Rev 6:9-11 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[/color] Matt 24:28-30 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 6:12-17 (KJV)

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Dan 11:21 (KJV)

I take it you think that the whie horse rider is 'antichrist'? The fact is that the white horse rider is Jesus. He came, conquering and to conquer. He has no arrows for his bow because prophecy said of him that he would not even break a reed. Yet, with no weapons at all, he conquered the greatest enemy of them all: Death.

The other horses speak of the things He mentioned in Mt 24. The red horse rider: War. Specifically the wars that convulsed the Empire after Nero's suicide, including what Josephus calls the Jewish War. The black horse: Famine. The pale horse: Death and Hell.

Famine was typical in a siege situation. The enemy has you boxed in and you can't get out for food. Anything inside immediately becomes available only to those who can afford it, by money or trade. The haves eat, the have-nots go hungry and when hunger sets in, so does the siege mentality. The have-nots will rob, cheat and/or kill anyone who has.

Death was obviously the result of the siege. You starved eventually. Or you tried to escape and the Romans got you and crucified you. Inside the city, the bodies pile up because there's no one to clean up the mess, which brings disease and more death. And death means the grave. Whether you are buried or not, if you're not a Believer, you go to the grave. Sheol or Hades, the outer darkness. The factions which fought inside Jerusalem piled up dead bodies something fierce and those dead bodies laid where they fell. The stench had to be something horrendous. Jesus spoke of pestilence, and a well executed siege (which the Romans were experts at) would create its fair share.

I don't know why more believers don't read Josephus' account and compare it to the things Jesus said, and also to Deuteronomy 28-32.

The souls under the altar who were killed for the testimony of Jesus were the martyrs of the Neronian persecution. It was the Jewish leadership who put them there. Paul even helped for a brief time until Christ changed him. Now God was executing vengeance on their behalf as well.

Jesus told the story in Matthew about the people who treated the King's prophets shamefully and killed his heir, and how the King sent his armies and burned their city, but no one seems to grasp that He was talking about Daniel 9 and God's vengeance upon rebellious Israel.

[Daniel59]

I take it you think that the whie horse rider is 'antichrist'?

Yes, if not the antichrist at least the spirit of. lol

IM sorry, I have wrote about 4 or 5 in depth responses but I realized everything is there I would just be repeating. lol

I assume My interpretation of Duet is different then yours if you contend that is about the end times other than the tie in with the parable of the fig tree.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matt 24:1-5 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt 24:1-30 (KJV)

Edited January 8, 2012 by Daniel59

[Bold Believer]

I take it you think that the whie horse rider is 'antichrist'?

Yes, if not the antichrist at least the spirit of. lol

IM sorry, I have wrote about 4 or 5 in depth responses but I realized everything is there I would just be repeating. lol

I assume My interpretation of Duet is different then yours if you contend that is about the end times other than the tie in with the parable of the fig tree.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matt 24:1-5 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt 24:1-30 (KJV)

The Four Horsemen actually tell the same story Jesus did. First, Christ comes into the world, bringing with him the Kingdom. Then wars and rumors of wars. Then famine and pestilence, and finally Death and the grave. The desolation is poured out on Jerusalem and the Temple.

[douggg]

The person we refer to as the Antichrist in the general sense, progresses in his time. He does not start out as the Antichrist, false King Messiah.

Here is his progression. He comes on the scene as the little horn (European politician), then becomes the Antichrist (false King Messiah, in lieu of Jesus), then reveals himself as the man of sin (no longer the Antichrist because the Jews reject him at that point), then transforms into the Antichrist beast (Antichrist beast because he will be totally against Jesus and will curse God and those in heaven).

If a person doesn't recognize that progression, they will be confused in interpreting the end times prophecies in the old testament and new testament.

Doug

[rollinTHUNDER]

The person we refer to as the Antichrist in the general sense, progresses in his time. He does not start out as the Antichrist, false King Messiah.

Here is his progression. He comes on the scene as the little horn (European politician), then becomes the Antichrist (false King Messiah, in lieu of Jesus), then reveals himself as the man of sin (no longer the Antichrist because the Jews reject him at that point), then transforms into the Antichrist beast (Antichrist beast because he will be totally against Jesus and will curse God and those in heaven).

If a person doesn't recognize that progression, they will be confused in interpreting the end times prophecies in the old testament and new testament.

Doug

Hi Doug,

You might want to read the verses of Scripture that actually mention antichrist in 1 and 2 John. This subject is probably the longest running myth in eschotology. All unbelievers have the spirit of antichrist. John never made mention of a single antichrist man or individual that would come at the time of the end. This myth began a long, long time ago. One of the reformers accused the pope of being the antichrist, but here we are today, still playing the pin the tail on the antichrist game and jumping from one conclusion to the next.

There will certainly come a time when the son of perdition or man of sin comes, but this is not necessarily what John ment when he coined the term antichrist. There are still plenty of other possibilities that remain, but we are too busy scratching our itching ears to see how ridiculous it really is. And now we are nearing to the time of the end, and the newest belief is that the antichrist is now the beast as well. Yet some people don't believe the beast is a man. Some think it is a system, while others think it's a global government.

That's why I don't call the son of perdition the antichrist. There's just too many false assumptions, misconceptions and myths being spread around, which only leads to more confusion.

[douggg]

The person we refer to as the Antichrist in the general sense, progresses in his time. He does not start out as the Antichrist, false King Messiah.

Here is his progression. He comes on the scene as the little horn (European politician), then becomes the Antichrist (false King Messiah, in lieu of Jesus), then reveals himself as the man of sin (no longer the Antichrist because the Jews reject him at that point), then transforms into the Antichrist beast (Antichrist beast because he will be totally against Jesus and will curse God and those in heaven).

If a person doesn't recognize that progression, they will be confused in interpreting the end times prophecies in the old testament and new testament.

Doug

Hi Doug,

You might want to read the verses of Scripture that actually mention antichrist in 1 and 2 John. This subject is probably the longest running myth in eschotology. All unbelievers have the spirit of antichrist. John never made mention of a single antichrist man or individual that would come at the time of the end. This myth began a long, long time ago. One of the reformers accused the pope of being the antichrist, but here we are today, still playing the pin the tail on the antichrist game and jumping from one conclusion to the next.

There will certainly come a time when the son of perdition or man of sin comes, but this is not necessarily what John ment when he coined the term antichrist. There are still plenty of other possibilities that remain, but we are too busy scratching our itching ears to see how ridiculous it really is. And now we are nearing to the time of the end, and the newest belief is that the antichrist is now the beast as well. Yet some people don't believe the beast is a man. Some think it is a system, while others think it's a global government.

That's why I don't call the son of perdition the antichrist. There's just too many false assumptions, misconceptions and myths being spread around, which only leads to more confusion.

Hi RollingThunder, I am very familiar with what John had to say about antichrist who shall come and antichrists of his day. The antichrists of his day were those of the Christian congregations who left those congregations to deny that Jesus is the christ.

"Christ" is rooted in "anointed", which the kings and priests of Israel were anointed's. The specific anointed - the promised great king of Israel to sit on David's throne is who the Jews and the disciples before the resurrection are (were in the case of the disciples) looking for is "the" messiah. Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would accept another instead of himself. Since Jesus spoke to Nicodemus before the resurrection (only after which did the disciples understand he was the save-us-from-our-sins messiah Luke 24:44-46), he was referring to the King Messiah concept.

The Antichrist that John said was to come (1John2:18) will be a false King Messiah, who the Jews will accept for approximately 3 years, 3 months before he makes a deal with Satan who enters him and subsequently will do the deed of going into the temple and declares himself to be God. For which God has him slain, Ezekiel 28:2-10. And kicked out of the grave in Isaiah 14:19-20.

The person who Christians speak of in prophecy discussions as the Antichrist does not start out as the Antichrist, because technically speaking the Antichrist does not fill that role until the Jews embrace him as their King Messiah - going back to what Jesus told Nicodemus. When the Antichrist goes into the temple to reveal himself as the man of sin, the son of perdition, the Jews will drop him as their perceived King Messiah like a hot potato.

The word "Antichrist" is missing in Revelation. But he, himself, is there at the different stages of his career.

Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin.

Antichrist stage - false King Messiah, the rider on the white horse of Revelation 6. The first 3 years 3 months of the 7 years.

Man of sin stage - the mortally wounded head of Revelation 13. Perhaps for a week.

Antichrist-beast stage - the recovered man of sin, who will be possessed by the beast (spirit) ascending from the bottomless pit stage, as the eighth king of Revelation 17. Last 42 months of the 7 years.

Anti - meaning both "in lieu of" and "against". In the Antichrist stage, the person will be "in lieu of" Jesus the real King Messiah. In the Antichrist-beast stage, his final stage, the person to be possessed by the beast spirit - currently in the bottomless pit - will be overtly "against" Jesus.

Doug

Edited January 14, 2012 by douggg

[rollinTHUNDER]

The person we refer to as the Antichrist in the general sense, progresses in his time. He does not start out as the Antichrist, false King Messiah.

Here is his progression. He comes on the scene as the little horn (European politician), then becomes the Antichrist (false King Messiah, in lieu of Jesus), then reveals himself as the man of sin (no longer the Antichrist because the Jews reject him at that point), then transforms into the Antichrist beast (Antichrist beast because he will be totally against Jesus and will curse God and those in heaven).

If a person doesn't recognize that progression, they will be confused in interpreting the end times prophecies in the old testament and new testament.

Doug

Hi Doug,

You might want to read the verses of Scripture that actually mention antichrist in 1 and 2 John. This subject is probably the longest running myth in eschotology. All unbelievers have the spirit of antichrist. John never made mention of a single antichrist man or individual that would come at the time of the end. This myth began a long, long time ago. One of the reformers accused the pope of being the antichrist, but here we are today, still playing the pin the tail on the antichrist game and jumping from one conclusion to the next.

There will certainly come a time when the son of perdition or man of sin comes, but this is not necessarily what John ment when he coined the term antichrist. There are still plenty of other possibilities that remain, but we are too busy scratching our itching ears to see how ridiculous it really is. And now we are nearing to the time of the end, and the newest belief is that the antichrist is now the beast as well. Yet some people don't believe the beast is a man. Some think it is a system, while others think it's a global government.

That's why I don't call the son of perdition the antichrist. There's just too many false assumptions, misconceptions and myths being spread around, which only leads to more confusion.

Hi RollingThunder, I am very familiar with what John had to say about antichrist who shall come and antichrists of his day. The antichrists of his day were those of the Christian congregations who left those congregations to deny that Jesus is the christ.

"Christ" is rooted in "anointed", which the kings and priests of Israel were anointed's. The specific anointed - the promised great king of Israel to sit on David's throne is who the Jews and the disciples before the resurrection are (were in the case of the disciples) looking for is "the" messiah. Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would accept another instead of himself. Since Jesus spoke to Nicodemus before the resurrection (only after which did the disciples understand he was the save-us-from-our-sins messiah Luke 24:44-46), he was referring to the King Messiah concept.

The Antichrist that John said was to come (1John2:18) will be a false King Messiah, who the Jews will accept for approximately 3 years, 3 months before he makes a deal with Satan who enters him and subsequently will do the deed of going into the temple and declares himself to be God. For which God has him slain, Ezekiel 28:2-10. And kicked out of the grave in Isaiah 14:19-20.

The person who Christians speak of in prophecy discussions as the Antichrist does not start out as the Antichrist, because technically speaking the Antichrist does not fill that role until the Jews embrace him as their King Messiah - going back to what Jesus told Nicodemus. When the Antichrist goes into the temple to reveal himself as the man of sin, the son of perdition, the Jews will drop him as their perceived King Messiah like a hot potato.

The word "Antichrist" is missing in Revelation. But he, himself, is there at the different stages of his career.

Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin.

Antichrist stage - false King Messiah, the rider on the white horse of Revelation 6. The first 3 years 3 months of the 7 years.

Man of sin stage - the mortally wounded head of Revelation 13. Perhaps for a week.

Antichrist-beast stage - the recovered man of sin, who will be possessed by the beast (spirit) ascending from the bottomless pit stage, as the eighth king of Revelation 17. Last 42 months of the 7 years.

Anti - meaning both "in lieu of" and "against". In the Antichrist stage, the person will be "in lieu of" Jesus the real King Messiah. In the Antichrist-beast stage, his final stage, the person to be possessed by the beast spirit - currently in the bottomless pit - will be overtly "against" Jesus.

Doug

I'm not going to waste much time trying to hash this out, but wow, you are really tangled up in these assumptions/misconceptions. You have taken this much farther than anyone else I've ever seen before. I don't dwell on this too much, but I'll tell you what I believe the beast is in a nutshell. This is my personal theory and opinion, so don't go trying to read up on it somewhere else, because you won't find it.

The dragon is Satan's kingdom of darkness that has reigned over the God's people. It has seven heads, which are empires that run in succession. Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece were before John's time, and Rome was the one that was, in John's day. Assyria and Egypt reigned before Israel became a mighty Holy nation. Then after Israel had her moment of glory, Daniel came along. As a young lad, he saw the rise of what became known in his prophecy, as the first beast (Babylon).

Rome was Daniel's fourth beast, which was the dragons sixth head. It had two legs, the Roman Empire, then the so-called Holy Roman Empire after a short space of time. This fourth beast and/or sixth head was also the one that suffered the fatal head wound of a sword and came back to life again. According to Daniel Chapter 7, this same beast will devour the whole earth, tread it down and break it into pieces, and it will be reigning again when Christ returns. At that time, it will be the seventh head. But since it has two feet, the second foot will also be considered an eighth, which, like the Holy Roman Empire arose after the Imperial Roman Empire suffered the fatal head wound, another religious beast will rise up again out of the same kingdom. Except this time, there will be no space or gap of time in between, for it will come up in its presence or during the same time. We are waiting for the full revival or resurrection of Daniel's fourth beast, the European Union, and I believe the Catholic so-called church will be the eighth and the pope will be the false prophet. The Romans hijacked the church, but as Jesus said, the gates of hell would not prevail against it. A little horn will rise up among ten nations in Europe. These will rise and become strong after America crumbles and God crushes the Russian/Arab alliance when they come to take a spoil in Israel (Ezek.38).

By now you must be wondering what the fatal head wound from the sword was? You must remember, that it was the Romans that crucified our Lord. They are also responible for killing His disciples who brought us the New Testament. It is very possible, too, that this also could be what John meant when he said that antichrist would come. But the Romans took control over God's Word afterward, which plunged the world into the dark ages. But God's Word is the sword of the spirit that is so powerful that they could never contain it. They used it to keep the people in bondage, but it ended up cutting their kingdom into pieces. It was the reformation that cut and divided them into over a hundred different sects and denominations.

I know, the so-called prophecy experts are teaching that the antichrist will suffer the fatal head wound and come back to life after three days, BALONEY. If you believe that, maybe you might also be interested in buying some swamp land in Florida?

[douggg]

The person we refer to as the Antichrist in the general sense, progresses in his time. He does not start out as the Antichrist, false King Messiah.

Here is his progression. He comes on the scene as the little horn (European politician), then becomes the Antichrist (false King Messiah, in lieu of Jesus), then reveals himself as the man of sin (no longer the Antichrist because the Jews reject him at that point), then transforms into the Antichrist beast (Antichrist beast because he will be totally against Jesus and will curse God and those in heaven).

If a person doesn't recognize that progression, they will be confused in interpreting the end times prophecies in the old testament and new testament.

Doug

Hi Doug,

You might want to read the verses of Scripture that actually mention antichrist in 1 and 2 John. This subject is probably the longest running myth in eschotology. All unbelievers have the spirit of antichrist. John never made mention of a single antichrist man or individual that would come at the time of the end. This myth began a long, long time ago. One of the reformers accused the pope of being the antichrist, but here we are today, still playing the pin the tail on the antichrist game and jumping from one conclusion to the next.

There will certainly come a time when the son of perdition or man of sin comes, but this is not necessarily what John ment when he coined the term antichrist. There are still plenty of other possibilities that remain, but we are too busy scratching our itching ears to see how ridiculous it really is. And now we are nearing to the time of the end, and the newest belief is that the antichrist is now the beast as well. Yet some people don't believe the beast is a man. Some think it is a system, while others think it's a global government.

That's why I don't call the son of perdition the antichrist. There's just too many false assumptions, misconceptions and myths being spread around, which only leads to more confusion.

Hi RollingThunder, I am very familiar with what John had to say about antichrist who shall come and antichrists of his day. The antichrists of his day were those of the Christian congregations who left those congregations to deny that Jesus is the christ.

"Christ" is rooted in "anointed", which the kings and priests of Israel were anointed's. The specific anointed - the promised great king of Israel to sit on David's throne is who the Jews and the disciples before the resurrection are (were in the case of the disciples) looking for is "the" messiah. Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would accept another instead of himself. Since Jesus spoke to Nicodemus before the resurrection (only after which did the disciples understand he was the save-us-from-our-sins messiah Luke 24:44-46), he was referring to the King Messiah concept.

The Antichrist that John said was to come (1John2:18) will be a false King Messiah, who the Jews will accept for approximately 3 years, 3 months before he makes a deal with Satan who enters him and subsequently will do the deed of going into the temple and declares himself to be God. For which God has him slain, Ezekiel 28:2-10. And kicked out of the grave in Isaiah 14:19-20.

The person who Christians speak of in prophecy discussions as the Antichrist does not start out as the Antichrist, because technically speaking the Antichrist does not fill that role until the Jews embrace him as their King Messiah - going back to what Jesus told Nicodemus. When the Antichrist goes into the temple to reveal himself as the man of sin, the son of perdition, the Jews will drop him as their perceived King Messiah like a hot potato.

The word "Antichrist" is missing in Revelation. But he, himself, is there at the different stages of his career.

Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin.

Antichrist stage - false King Messiah, the rider on the white horse of Revelation 6. The first 3 years 3 months of the 7 years.

Man of sin stage - the mortally wounded head of Revelation 13. Perhaps for a week.

Antichrist-beast stage - the recovered man of sin, who will be possessed by the beast (spirit) ascending from the bottomless pit stage, as the eighth king of Revelation 17. Last 42 months of the 7 years.

Anti - meaning both "in lieu of" and "against". In the Antichrist stage, the person will be "in lieu of" Jesus the real King Messiah. In the Antichrist-beast stage, his final stage, the person to be possessed by the beast spirit - currently in the bottomless pit - will be overtly "against" Jesus.

Doug

I'm not going to waste much time trying to hash this out, but wow, you are really tangled up in these assumptions/misconceptions. You have taken this much farther than anyone else I've ever seen before. I don't dwell on this too much, but I'll tell you what I believe the beast is in a nutshell. This is my personal theory and opinion, so don't go trying to read up on it somewhere else, because you won't find it.

The dragon is Satan's kingdom of darkness that has reigned over the God's people. It has seven heads, which are empires that run in succession. Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece were before John's time, and Rome was the one that was, in John's day. Assyria and Egypt reigned before Israel became a mighty Holy nation. Then after Israel had her moment of glory, Daniel came along. As a young lad, he saw the rise of what became known in his prophecy, as the first beast (Babylon).

Rome was Daniel's fourth beast, which was the dragons sixth head. It had two legs, the Roman Empire, then the so-called Holy Roman Empire after a short space of time. This fourth beast and/or sixth head was also the one that suffered the fatal head wound of a sword and came back to life again. According to Daniel Chapter 7, this same beast will devour the whole earth, tread it down and break it into pieces, and it will be reigning again when Christ returns. At that time, it will be the seventh head. But since it has two feet, the second foot will also be considered an eighth, which, like the Holy Roman Empire arose after the Imperial Roman Empire suffered the fatal head wound, another religious beast will rise up again out of the same kingdom. Except this time, there will be no space or gap of time in between, for it will come up in its presence or during the same time. We are waiting for the full revival or resurrection of Daniel's fourth beast, the European Union, and I believe the Catholic so-called church will be the eighth and the pope will be the false prophet. The Romans hijacked the church, but as Jesus said, the gates of hell would not prevail against it. A little horn will rise up among ten nations in Europe. These will rise and become strong after America crumbles and God crushes the Russian/Arab alliance when they come to take a spoil in Israel (Ezek.38).

By now you must be wondering what the fatal head wound from the sword was? You must remember, that it was the Romans that crucified our Lord. They are also responible for killing His disciples who brought us the New Testament. It is very possible, too, that this also could be what John meant when he said that antichrist would come. But the Romans took control over God's Word afterward, which plunged the world into the dark ages. But God's Word is the sword of the spirit that is so powerful that they could never contain it. They used it to keep the people in bondage, but it ended up cutting their kingdom into pieces. It was the reformation that cut and divided them into over a hundred different sects and denominations.

I know, the so-called prophecy experts are teaching that the antichrist will suffer the fatal head wound and come back to life after three days, BALONEY. If you believe that, maybe you might also be interested in buying some swamp land in Florida?

Hi Rollinthunder, you wrote..."The dragon is Satan's kingdom of darkness."

The bible says the dragon is Satan himself. Revelation 12:9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast outwith him.

There are no multiple kingdoms pertaining to the 7 kings of Revelation 17. They are all of the 4th empire, the Roman Empire. Here are those stages of the Antichrist's career again.

Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin.

Antichrist stage - false King Messiah, the rider on the white horse of Revelation 6. The first 3 years 3 months of the 7 years.

Man of sin stage - the mortally wounded head of Revelation 13. Perhaps for a week.

Antichrist-beast stage - the recovered man of sin, who will be possessed by the beast (spirit) ascending from the bottomless pit stage, as the eighth king of Revelation 17. Last 42 months of the 7 years.

In the Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin. The six kings of the Roman Empire were:

King 1 - Julius Caesar

King 2 - Augustus Caesar

King 3 - Tiberius

King 4 - Caligula

King 5 - Claudius

King 6 - Nero, ruling at the time of John

King #7 - will be the end times little horn of Daniel 7, who comes up among ten kings of the end times Roman Empire... prior to the 7 years beginning. All of the 7 kings are of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

In Revelation 17:3, the heads do not have their crowns because king #7 is end-times. In Revelation 12:3, the heads have their crowns because entering the 7 years (Revelation 12:6+12:14), the little horn will have come to power. In Revelation 13:1, the heads no longer have their crowns because king #7 will have been killed, ending the time of the 7 kings. During the last 42 months of Revelation 13, the eighth king will rule.

Doug

Edited January 15, 2012 by douggg

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hi Rollinthunder, you wrote..."The dragon is Satan's kingdom of darkness."

The bible says the dragon is Satan himself. Revelation 12:9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast outwith him.

There are no multiple kingdoms pertaining to the 7 kings of Revelation 17. They are all of the 4th empire, the Roman Empire. Here are those stages of the Antichrist's career again.

Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin.

Antichrist stage - false King Messiah, the rider on the white horse of Revelation 6. The first 3 years 3 months of the 7 years.

Man of sin stage - the mortally wounded head of Revelation 13. Perhaps for a week.

Antichrist-beast stage - the recovered man of sin, who will be possessed by the beast (spirit) ascending from the bottomless pit stage, as the eighth king of Revelation 17. Last 42 months of the 7 years.

In the Little horn stage - he will be the seventh king of the seven kings of Revelation 17. Before the 7 years begin. The six kings of the Roman Empire were:

King 1 - Julius Caesar

King 2 - Augustus Caesar

King 3 - Tiberius

King 4 - Caligula

King 5 - Claudius

King 6 - Nero, ruling at the time of John

King #7 - will be the end times little horn of Daniel 7, who comes up among ten kings of the end times Roman Empire... prior to the 7 years beginning. All of the 7 kings are of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

In Revelation 17:3, the heads do not have their crowns because king #7 is end-times. In Revelation 12:3, the heads have their crowns because entering the 7 years (Revelation 12:6+12:14), the little horn will have come to power. In Revelation 13:1, the heads no longer have their crowns because king #7 will have been killed, ending the time of the 7 kings. During the last 42 months of Revelation 13, the eighth king will rule.

Doug

Rev. 17 shows a woman (harlot) riding a beast. This beast is the revival of Daniel's 4th beast, the revived Roman Empire. Daniel's 1st beast was Babylon, 2nd Media-Persia, 3rd Greece, and 4th Roman's with two legs.

Now who is the woman that will be riding the revived 4th beast?

Rev. 17:1-13

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

She sits on many waters = Roman Catholicism certainly fits

Arrayed in scarlet and purple with golden cup in her hand = cardinals wear red, bishops wear purple and they drink from a golden cup, the Romans destroyed the Temple and carried away the precious artifacts to Rome like the Babylonians did = mystery Babylon

Drunk from the blood of the saints = Roman Catholicism fits in the past, and it will fit again when the mark of the beast comes. This harlot will cause all to worship the first beast that came out of the sea (revived Roman Empire/EU), Rev. 13.

She sits on seven hills = Roman fits here as well

Interestingly, just a couple weeks ago, the pope was calling for a world or global currency to be developed.

[douggg]

Rev. 17 shows a woman (harlot) riding a beast. This beast is the revival of Daniel's 4th beast, the revived Roman Empire. Daniel's 1st beast was Babylon, 2nd Media-Persia, 3rd Greece, and 4th Roman's with two legs.

In Revelation 17, the beast is not coming out of the sea (or earth). Since the beast is not coming out of the sea or earth in Revelation 17, the dual representation found in Daniel 7 of the beast being both a king and the fourth kingdom, does not apply in this particular chapter, like it does in Revelation 13.

The beast in Revelation 17 is a person.

In this particular chapter, the beast being scarlet colored matches better with the red dragon (Satan) in Revelation 12, but since Satan is not in the bottomless pit, it cannot be directly Satan himself as the beast. So whoever the beast is, he was doing Satan's bidding back in his day when he was alive. Here is the key verse of Revelation 17. The verse can be broken down into two parts.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

In the first part of Revelation 17:8, the beast "was and is not" which indicates that he once was alive but is no longer alive at the time of John. The beast is currently in the bottomless pit. He was an ancient individual.

The second part of Revelation 17:8 makes the connection between the end times Antichrist person (the wounded head) and the ancient person. They are two separate individuals which will unify into the Antichrist-beast of the last 42 months of the 7 years. The world will wonder seeing the beast (outwardly, what they will observe is the slain and recovered man of sin) was (alive), is not (he dies), and yet is (he lives). Internally to the slain and recovered man of sin, the beast as a disembodied spirit will ascend out of the bottomless pit to possess the slain recovered man of sin.

Now who is the woman that will be riding the revived 4th beast?

In this particular chapter, the description of the beast is Satan. So the woman is doing Satan's bidding. Which if by the inscription on the woman's head - Mystery Babylon - it take us all the way back to the tower of Babel. And the beast currently in the bottomless pit is Nimrod, imo. I could be wrong, it could be someone else.

I do agree with you that the whore is probably the RCC as the organization and the city of Rome that the ten kings will destroy. But I would not say that the whore exclusively only represents the RCC, but also the whore goes all the way back to Babel and before the RCC - because in Revelation 18 it says, 18:24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Edited January 16, 2012 by douggg