The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[Michae]

It appears when you have no rebuttal you imply things with an out burst that were not said, is that a defence for not knowing or just imaturity. I never said the covenants were over, where did u read that i did could u quote that and back up your slander.

[He giveth more grace]

It absurb to think that the covenants of Israel has been discontinued, but the truth is that they are as much in force as when God made them.

Psalm 105

8He has remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

9Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath to Isaac; 10And confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

The covenants are on hold until the millenium, Acts 28:28.

I think you should go fine a better backup ref. than that. That does't say the covenants or on pause, there is no pause button on God eternal promises or covenants. What part of eternity don't you understand.

[Michae]

Ok fair enough, back to OP we are not going to get any where.

[~candice~]

It absurb to think that the covenants of Israel has been discontinued, but the truth is that they are as much in force as when God made them.

Psalm 105

8He has remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

9Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath to Isaac; 10And confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

The covenants are on hold until the millenium, Acts 28:28.

I really don't think you are right here. Even salvation is a covenant... and I assure you that people are entering that covenant and living in it today. Which covenants in particular do you think are on hold, and how does Acts 28:28 demonstrate that? A little more meat would be nice, thanks.

[Guest shiloh357]

This passage is clearly speaking of people who were once saved. There are too many things in the description that prove that is the case. 1. They were once enlightened. 2. They tased of the heavenly gift. 3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. 4. They tasted of the good word of God. 5. They tasted of the powers of the world to come. No sinner meets those qualifications. These are not people who merely committed a single sin. It says they are people who have fallen away. They are people that have grieved the Spirit to the point where he will no longer convict them of their sins, and their hearts have become so hard, they will never come to repentance again, and will spend eternity in hell. Common sense and basic literacy proves this is speaking of someone who has lost their salvation.

The problem is that it says it is impossible to renew them unto repentance. If you view this losing salvation, once it is lost it cannot be regained.

If you go back to chapter 5 and read the last three verses, they create a line of thought that go into chapter 6. Chapter 6 is a bad chapter break. The writer is not starting a new line of thought. The complaint is that they are stagnate and lazy, not that they are apostate or have lost their salvation. The issue is not about apostasy and the word for falling away is not being used to describe apostasy. It is word that means to fall away, but in the sense of falling beside or to fall to the side. It's like the athelete who gives out before the end of the race or the lazy person who cannot remain focused on his work to complete it.

The writer of Hebrews is saying we have to move forward. We cannot keep going back to these elemental principles over and over. The notion of renewing unto repentance is not talking about getting resaved. His point is that we cannot keep going back to the first day of class, so to speak. We cannot go back start over back when you were first saved, otherwise you will have to recrucify Jesus in your heart, as well.

[~candice~]

This passage is clearly speaking of people who were once saved. There are too many things in the description that prove that is the case. 1. They were once enlightened. 2. They tased of the heavenly gift. 3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. 4. They tasted of the good word of God. 5. They tasted of the powers of the world to come. No sinner meets those qualifications. These are not people who merely committed a single sin. It says they are people who have fallen away. They are people that have grieved the Spirit to the point where he will no longer convict them of their sins, and their hearts have become so hard, they will never come to repentance again, and will spend eternity in hell. Common sense and basic literacy proves this is speaking of someone who has lost their salvation.

The problem is that it says it is impossible to renew them unto repentance. If you view this losing salvation, once it is lost it cannot be regained.

If you go back to chapter 5 and read the last three verses, they create a line of thought that go into chapter 6. Chapter 6 is a bad chapter break. The writer is not starting a new line of thought. The complaint is that they are stagnate and lazy, not that they are apostate or have lost their salvation. The issue is not about apostasy and the word for falling away is not being used to describe apostasy. It is word that means to fall away, but in the sense of falling beside or to fall to the side. It's like the athelete who gives out before the end of the race or the lazy person who cannot remain focused on his work to complete it.

The writer of Hebrews is saying we have to move forward. We cannot keep going back to these elemental principles over and over. The notion of renewing unto repentance is not talking about getting resaved. His point is that we cannot keep going back to the first day of class, so to speak. We cannot go back start over back when you were first saved, otherwise you will have to recrucify Jesus in your heart, as well.

I get what you are saying, but how is that not the opposite of Rev 2:4-6?

⁴ Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. ⁵ Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. ⁶But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

[Guest shiloh357]

I get what you are saying, but how is that not the opposite of Rev 2:4-6?

4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

What makes you think these are opposites? I see two different contexts and two different, albeit not opposite complaints. I also see two different audiences with two different sets of problems, as well.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am going to go back into Hebrews and look at chapters 5 and 6, but I said that these people can't be re-saved. These are people that have fallen away. They did not simply commit a wilful sin that separated them from God. They went beyond that. These are people that continued to sin, and God quit convicting their hearts.

That is nothing but conjecture on your part.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am going to go back into Hebrews and look at chapters 5 and 6, but I said that these people can't be re-saved. These are people that have fallen away. They did not simply commit a wilful sin that separated them from God. They went beyond that. These are people that continued to sin, and God quit convicting their hearts.

That is nothing but conjecture on your part.

That is what it is saying. You have created, or you have read a commentary that created a complicated explaination of something relatively simple. I am at present examining the scriptures from Hebrews 5:11-6:6 to see if the things you said have any merit?

The text nowhere says that the audience is apostate.

The text does not say they are living in unrepentant sin, nor does it claim that the audience is separated from God.

The text does not say that they continued in sin so long that God has stopped convicting them.

Those are things you are assigning to this audience and you have NO Scriptural basis for doing so. It is nothing but baseless conjecture on your part.

[taylor30]

Hello everyone. I just want to add my 2¢. The passage in Hebrews 6:4 that people are discussing above me it should be very clear why this is NOT talking about saved people losing their salvation. Because it says it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them to repentance. THEREFORE, if that passage did mean people losing salvation, it would also be saying that if,you lose salvation, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get it back. Common sense and logic must prevail. This passage is NOT talking about losing your salvation. God Bless.

That is not true. Let's examine that verse closely. Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tased of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This passage is clearly speaking of people who were once saved. There are too many things in the description that prove that is the case. 1. They were once enlightened. 2. They tased of the heavenly gift. 3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. 4. They tasted of the good word of God. 5. They tasted of the powers of the world to come. No sinner meets those qualifications. These are not people who merely committed a single sin. It says they are people who have fallen away. They are people that have grieved the Spirit to the point where he will no longer convict them of their sins, and their hearts have become so hard, they will never come to repentance again, and will spend eternity in hell. Common sense and basic literacy proves this is speaking of someone who has lost their salvation.

I must respectfully disagree. #1. Once enlightened does not necessarily mean saved. There are other possible meanings. #2. Tasting the heavenly gift does not necessarily mean salvation either. #3. Even this does not necessarily mean salvation. #4 & 5. This CAN refer to any sinner, and doesn't mean salvation. Actually it doesn't say that those people were bad sinners. It ONLY says they fell away. Before you can say this means losing salvation, you have to PROVE these people were saved, which is clearly opinion since these can easily refer to sinners, AND you,have to prove what type of falling away is being talked about. Remember, even the apostles fell away briefly and Peter flat out denied christ. You have to show what type of falling away is mentioned, and since its not clear, any answer is opinion, and remember the harsh words Jesus,had for people who try to make opinion as important as God's word. This passage DOES say it is impossible to renew them to repentance. If it is talking about saved people, then Jesus lied when he said the saved could NEVER be taken from his hand. It also would contradict many passages that talk about the permenant salvation of a believer which I have not seen a single person on this thread address. People keep saying OSAS is false, but then they give opinion instead of scripture and don't address the OSAS verses.