The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[He giveth more grace]

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

You don't grasp the transaction between Christ and God and the sprikling of the holy things in heaven with Christ blood. God was/is never satified with us, in our unregenerated, precross days, not even in our postcross days in ourselves, God saw the travail of Christs soul and was satified, the blood has been applied, it is finished.

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

Not much of a seal....2Cor 1:22, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30, Rev 7:4... Love, Steven

Blasphemy! Done in ignorance, but still blasphemy. The Holy Spirit is not much of a seal? It is a seal that the demon, others, and you can not break.

This letter is not to the individual per say, but is to the corporate body of believers... The Church was in danger of losing its work and witness for God... They had grown away from the simplicity that is in Christ "when we first Loved".... if a Church loses it acceptance of sinners by condemnation the purpose of the way, truth and life Christ has brought into the world is lost... Always remember no matter how vile the person before us- we always must Love with same we also received! Love, Steven

Give Steven a gold star. The churches of Asia part was in John's day and then it turns futuristic after it is said "come up hither"

[enoob57]

This letter is not to the individual per say, but is to the corporate body of believers... The Church was in danger of losing its work and witness for God... They had grown away from the simplicity that is in Christ "when we first Loved".... if a Church loses it acceptance of sinners by condemnation the purpose of the way, truth and life Christ has brought into the world is lost... Always remember no matter how vile the person before us- we always must Love with same we also received! Love, Steven

Give Steven a gold star. The churches of Asia part was in John's day and then it turns futuristic after it is said "come up hither"

[enoob57]

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

You are making the false assumption that the gift of salvation is a gift you can give back. The actual reality is that you CANNOT give it back, and God will not take it back. That is why OSAS is true. Because once you have salvation, you are stuck with it. You CAN'T give it back and God WON'T take it back. Not a single scripture says otherwise.

The inference of you words 'stuck with it' although true denies the light that it is actually in - being so precious that a man would give all that he knows or has experienced to keep it... 'The pearl of great price' Matt 13:46 Love, Steven

[He giveth more grace]

Those who hold to OSAS believe they have a part in their salvation. They believe they had to do something, in meeting God half way. It goes like this. There is an alter call. The person has to make a decision to repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. That means they have a part in their salvation. According to your own standards, believing you have a part in your salvation means you are prideful. The only people that don't fall into that camp are those who believe in predestination and election.

Quite the opposite, you all believe you have a part in your salvation and can lose it, if we don't have a part then we can't lose it, that is what I believe..

[He giveth more grace]

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

You don't grasp the transaction between Christ and God and the sprikling of the holy things in heaven with Christ blood. God was/is never satified with us, in our unregenerated, precross days, not even in our postcross days in ourselves, God saw the travail of Christs soul and was satified, the blood has been applied, it is finished.

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

Not much of a seal....2Cor 1:22, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30, Rev 7:4... Love, Steven

Blasphemy! Done in ignorance, but still blasphemy. The Holy Spirit is not much of a seal? It is a seal that the demon, others, and you can not break.

This letter is not to the individual per say, but is to the corporate body of believers... The Church was in danger of losing its work and witness for God... They had grown away from the simplicity that is in Christ "when we first Loved".... if a Church loses it acceptance of sinners by condemnation the purpose of the way, truth and life Christ has brought into the world is lost... Always remember no matter how vile the person before us- we always must Love with same we also received! Love, Steven

Give Steven a gold star. The churches of Asia part was in John's day and then it turns futuristic after it is said "come up hither"

I am placing in bold something I want to respond to. You placed in one quote, two differen't people's comments. Alien 224 never said "Not much of a seal." If you will notice, Steven said that in response to Alien 224 in disagreement with his comment. He was saying that if Alien 224 is correct, it shows that the seal given by the Holy Spirit isn't of much value. The seal had a great deal of value, and if that person were to die while that seal was upon him, he would go to heaven. At the same time, there is no reason to believe the seal can't be removed if the person walks away from God. The seal was of great value while they had it, but not once it is removed. That is not the fault of God, but of the person who turns his back on God. The comment was sarcasm, and though I don't agree with Steven, he shouldn't be accused of blasphemy. In addition, Alien224, shouldn't be accused of saying something he didn't, and therefore looked at as being guilty of blasphemy.

[enoob57]

There is not a single scripture that can prove what you just said, because it is not true. To me, this is one of the most absurd comments I have ever read in defense of OSAS. People give gifts all the time, and in some cases, they give them back. OSAS is a lie. You are not stuck with salvation against your will.

As an OTR truck driver, I listen to a lot of talk shows. One night on "Coast To Coast AM," they had a guest on the show whose name was Patsy, but she liked to refer to herself as Harlot. She told the story of becoming a Christian and serving God for a time. Later on, she decided she didn't want to serve God anymore, renounced her faith, and went into Satan worship. She said she hates God and looks forward to the day when he will tell her to depart from him. According to your belief system, she had no ability to do that. That wicked woman will have a mansion in heaven, because she is as you put it, "stuck with it." That is absolutely absurd, and the reason why a lot of people think OSAS is false doctrine.

No there is just the Whole of God's Word...

It began with the Adamic covenant then the Abrahamic covenant: First seen in Gen 15, then Gen 22

Then explained in the New Covenant of His Blood:

Ge 3:21

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

NKJV

Heb 6:13-18

13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." 15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. 16 For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. 17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.

NKJV

Jn 10:25-30

25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one."

NKJV

Christ taught it openly (the question to ask as you read- how can practicing sin can this person be in Heaven Christ's witness)

Mt 5:19-20

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

NKJV

Paul understood its precepts! (knowing the testimony above by Christ receive this question to yourself below)

Gal 3:1-8

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? — 6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

NKJV

As Abraham believed God and practiced on that belief so Paul practiced it in Church polity

1 Co 5:1-5

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles — that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NKJV

This Greek verb SOZO is in the aorist passive tense with the mood of the subjunctive of prohibition

The meaning of Paul's council was that this sin will destroy His (flesh)= life -so let it be but this is the neat aspect of the Greek

that his spirit may be saved being in the passive tense the verb is being acted upon with the idea of subjunctive of prohibition

meaning that it is prohibitive only if he is not save or born of God-> for Paul as all man cannot look upon the heart, only God,

thus the construct of the verb in the perfection of truth brings us to the seal of understanding

1 Jn 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

NKJV

John also knew we would be distraught by professors with inconsistencies with walk even (in ourselves)

-as this one who walk away hating God...

However as for myself not being able to look upon the heart I with Paul will watch her flesh be destroyed that her spirit may be saved? "Christ knows and is The Perfect judge" ...

but as for OSAS it is defined by Scripture from the very beginning:

It is God thats brings it about by our asking Him to save us:

->When we first hear the call we come with a sinners heart wishing to be saved from torment. This is a self centered aspect allowing for God's Word to be true 'there is none that seeketh after God' for we come seeking in self (which is sin) and God 'IS' holy

Rm 3:11-20

->Then the miracle we see as we are seen by God and all that we are is sin and we are reduce to no value and agree with God we should perish (true repentance)... Then the Grace of God comes and we are born

1 Pe 1:23-25

23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible,

through the word of God which lives and abides forever

, 24 because

"All flesh is as grass,

And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.

The grass withers,

And its flower falls away,

25 But the word of the Lord endures forever."

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

NKJV

This birth came not from this cosmos or our own being it came for the only incorruptible source "Christ The Lord"

and 'AS' the beginning Word of creation, and written Word the Bible, so The Living Word The Son we are sealed

for eternal life as the Bride of Christ...even the Angles can't tell for sure but anxiously await our revealing to The Glory Our Lord!

-> Even we work out our salvation in fear and trembling ... so let it be faith in God alone into the eternal promises clearly written down for all to see and know.

Love, Steven

[oak]

I said in my previous post hopefully it would be my last but I guess hope is deferred for some of you. This is a bit different.

I’ve come to understand that my concern over OSAS and Eternal Security is not with people such as Enoob, Fresno Joe, my bro’ Botz, you may have reached a very high understanding of Christ. You know the scriptures that your opposition will quote at times better than the opposition (mostly in my case). “Who is the wise and understanding among you? By his good life let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.” James 3:13-14 Yes, we show this by the grace of God. “But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth.” The truth is I have selfish ambitions, for me the world is a struggle. I have to sometimes force myself out of bed to go to church and sometimes prayer doesn’t come easily. I feel the need to be vigilant and guard against deception. I know firmly that Christ is my only salvation. Am I saved? At this point in time I have hope. This is my spiritual state. I can not put on virtues I don’t have. Some may say I am not of the elect or chosen. But if I call myself a Calvinist or O.S.A.S., that will not sway God from the truth concerning myself. The point is we are all on different spiritual levels. There is faith that is beginning, weak, struggling or salvational. If OSAS is indeed a true doctrine do Christians have a chance to let God work it out within them? Or is it you either get it or you don't matter?

My main question: Is OSAS a doctrine for all Christians? Not just for the people that have achieved a faith that makes them strongly beholden to God. “Therefore since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord.” (Rom 5:1) They have no need for themselves because they hunger just to serve God in every second of their life. The free gift is alive in them. Not because they can do whatever they want and are still are saved but because they have no interest in doing anything but God’s will. “More than that we rejoice in our sufferings….” (Rom 5:3). Now certain Christians have found the pinnacle of Faith and declare it as their belief. I wonder if there is room for, “I believe; help my unbelief.” Mrk 9:24

In talking to an Eternal Security proponent, I asked about the Beatitudes, the response was, “the Beatitudes are not Salvational?” Really? “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” That’s one of my problems with the OSAS crowd. They start at the journey’s essence and go backward to compartmentalize other scripture into sections that I don’t always agree with. There focus on virtues like, mercy, honesty, meekness, love seems to come instantly where in my observation they take time to develop. However, I'm not saying it's impossible to start at the Pinnacle and stay there. Lastly, is all faith of the same cloth (Jms 14:26)? If it’s not can we properly distinguish the word, faith?

[enoob57]

By the way, I feel confident that Patsy, aka Harlot, won't be in heaven when she dies, though she claimed to have once had a born again experience.

Then you stand opposed to Paul Whom God had Write nearly half of our NT... 1Cor 5:1-5

You also stand in disobedience and grave danger

Lk 6:37-38

37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."

NKJV

Love, Steven

[taylor30]

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation if a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

You are making the false assumption that the gift of salvation is a gift you can give back. The actual reality is that you CANNOT give it back, and God will not take it back. That is why OSAS is true. Because once you have salvation, you are stuck with it. You CAN'T give it back and God WON'T take it back. Not a single scripture says otherwise.

The inference of you words 'stuck with it' although true denies the light that it is actually in - being so precious that a man would give all that he knows or has experienced to keep it... 'The pearl of great price' Matt 13:46 Love, Steven

Yes I know I could have chosen better words, but if you haven't noticed, some people on this thread still don't get it yet. I wanted to use words that got the point across for hard headed people. Sorry you don't approve.

[enoob57]

I do not believe in eternal security. It is mans choice to turn his back on God. What I can't understand is how people claim Jesus will take away your salvation. Salvation if a free gift from God all we have to do is take it. Then on the other hand all we have to do is lay it down and walk away. We choose ( free will choice) How we live our life. If we choose to make God the head of our hearts and lives we do not have to worry about eternal destination.

You are making the false assumption that the gift of salvation is a gift you can give back. The actual reality is that you CANNOT give it back, and God will not take it back. That is why OSAS is true. Because once you have salvation, you are stuck with it. You CAN'T give it back and God WON'T take it back. Not a single scripture says otherwise.

The inference of you words 'stuck with it' although true denies the light that it is actually in - being so precious that a man would give all that he knows or has experienced to keep it... 'The pearl of great price' Matt 13:46 Love, Steven

Yes I know I could have chosen better words, but if you haven't noticed, some people on this thread still don't get it yet. I wanted to use words that got the point across for hard headed people. Sorry you don't approve.

Examine this thought- when ever we give an answer it is never to sway men but to give an account of the hope that is in us in Christ Jesus... Taylor all of us here look after one another even the ones we may have differences with! It is with love that I spoke not chastisement... we are a diverse body of believers here scattered among unbelievers and those who think they have and do not! Our motives are not to gain approval of one another but to ever increase in the excellence of Christ and His Living Word! Love, Steven