The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[Pilgrim_of_the_Dispersion]

Check out Ac 13:48: ". . .and all who were appointed for eternal life believed."

It does not say: all who believed were appointed for eternal life.

Prior to rebirth, we are spritually dead (Col 2:13; Eph 2:1, 5) and therefore, spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

Spiritually dead men cannot perform spiritual acts, they cannot obey Christ's command to repent and believe (Mk 1:15),

anymore than naturally dead men can perform natural acts to save themselves from returning to dust.

Spiritually dead and spiritually powerless men must first be enabled by God (Jn 6:65), who raises them from spiritual death, in the rebirth into eternal life (Jn 1:13).

Only when they are born again can they even see the kingdom of God (understand by faith what it means)--Jn 3:3,

and obey the command to repent and believe (Mk 1:15) to salvation (Jn 3:16).

Now we're getting to another problem of harmonizing the Scriptures.

God wishes ALL men to be saved (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:3 4), and yet even though He wants everyone to be saved, He decides that some should be condemned for eternity, with no choice in the matter? Is God a liar? (Titus 1:2)

[Guest shiloh357]

Check out Ac 13:48: ". . .and all who were appointed for eternal life believed."

It does not say: all who believed were appointed for eternal life.

Prior to rebirth, we are spritually dead (Col 2:13; Eph 2:1, 5) and therefore, spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

Spiritually dead men cannot perform spiritual acts, they cannot obey Christ's command to repent and believe (Mk 1:15),

anymore than naturally dead men can perform natural acts to save themselves from returning to dust.

Spiritually dead and spiritually powerless men must first be enabled by God (Jn 6:65), who raises them from spiritual death, in the rebirth into eternal life (Jn 1:13).

Only when they are born again can they even see the kingdom of God (understand by faith what it means)--Jn 3:3,

and obey the command to repent and believe (Mk 1:15) to salvation (Jn 3:16).

Now we're getting to another problem of harmonizing the Scriptures.

God wishes ALL men to be saved (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:3 4), and yet even though He wants everyone to be saved, He decides that some should be condemned for eternity, with no choice in the matter? Is God a liar? (Titus 1:2)

Yeah, 5-point Calviinism doesn't make much sense. John 3:16 doesn't say, "For God so loved the unconditionally elect..." God sent His Son for the world, not for a certain predestined group.

[Guest shiloh357]

Here is the major difference between what I am saying as opposed to Shiloh357. I don't believe that a professing Christian can return to a life of sin and remain saved.

I don't believe a truly born again person CAN return to a life of sin. There is not one NT example of a person who was truly born again, chucking it all out the window to return to living in sin.

He believes in a false security whereby they will remain saved.

No, I don't and have never said that.

By the way, speaking of Shiloh357, I find it funny that Shiloh used to be openly for OSAS. Then he rejected OSAS and the label and started promoting "perseverance of the saints," and now he has apparently decided that he believes in OSAS after all?

I have never promoted "perseverance of the saints, as I am not a Calvinist. Secondly, I have clearly stated that Eternal Security and OSAS are two entirely different points of view and I have endeavored to explain the difference between them. I think you need read what I said a little closer. OSAS is a made a up "doctrine." It doesn't exist. Eternal Security pertains to the surety of God's promised to those who are authentic followers of Jesus. It doesn't have anything to do with people being able to live in sin.

Edited February 5, 2012 by shiloh357

[Guest]

Here is the major difference between what I am saying as opposed to Shiloh357. I don't believe that a professing Christian can return to a life of sin and remain saved....

I don't believe a truly born again person CAN return to a life of sin.....

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Jeremiah 32:40

Jesus Saves~!

[Botz]

What about people who testify they were born-again, then went back into the world, ignored the call of G-d on their life but years down the line repented and returned to the L-rd....or even those who were truly born-again, but fell into sin and went far from G-d and died in that condition. Are we to believe that they were not born-again...whereas the testimony of many is that they did indeed know G-d, but followed the desires of the flesh before repenting again? I don't think one can easily dismiss their testimony by saying they weren't saved...even deliberate turning away by born-again Believers is a recognisable phenomenon, because if you conclude they cannot fall into a sinful life-style that by its very actions denies G-d, you take away the freedom of choice that is part of our gift as human-beings. However through all of this, as I understand it, we cannot annul the contract of Salvation because it does not rest in our capabilities but in what G-d declared and what cannot be altered, the chick cannot be made into an egg again.

[enoob57]

What about people who testify they were born-again, then went back into the world, ignored the call of G-d on their life but years down the line repented and returned to the L-rd....or even those who were truly born-again, but fell into sin and went far from G-d and died in that condition. Are we to believe that they were not born-again...whereas the testimony of many is that they did indeed know G-d, but followed the desires of the flesh before repenting again? I don't think one can easily dismiss their testimony by saying they weren't saved...even deliberate turning away by born-again Believers is a recognisable phenomenon, because if you conclude they cannot fall into a sinful life-style that by its very actions denies G-d, you take away the freedom of choice that is part of our gift as human-beings. However through all of this, as I understand it, we cannot annul the contract of Salvation because it does not rest in our capabilities but in what G-d declared and what cannot be altered, the chick cannot be made into an egg again.

Woven in your words is the deepest part of spiritual transport... when we experience this life in Him we immediately lift it to Him and ask Him to keep it for us because it is to precious for the trust to be put within ourselves for keeping. This very act of humility given us by new birth testifies of an eternal trust in Our Father Which art in Heaven Hallowed be Thy Name because He holds the value of what we are in His very Own Son! I cannot think of anything that overcame the Son's Love for us... as He gave witness when He came and lived, died and rose again here. Love, Steven

[~candice~]

What about people who testify they were born-again, then went back into the world, ignored the call of G-d on their life but years down the line repented and returned to the L-rd....or even those who were truly born-again, but fell into sin and went far from G-d and died in that condition. Are we to believe that they were not born-again...whereas the testimony of many is that they did indeed know G-d, but followed the desires of the flesh before repenting again? I don't think one can easily dismiss their testimony by saying they weren't saved...even deliberate turning away by born-again Believers is a recognisable phenomenon, because if you conclude they cannot fall into a sinful life-style that by its very actions denies G-d, you take away the freedom of choice that is part of our gift as human-beings. However through all of this, as I understand it, we cannot annul the contract of Salvation because it does not rest in our capabilities but in what G-d declared and what cannot be altered, the chick cannot be made into an egg again.

This is the problem I have with OSAS/ES. The only way to know if a profession of faith was genuine is works (and I might add, the infilling of the Holy Spirit as the seal). So if all of those things are missing, then by which basis do we accept their testimony? This sounds a lot like the seed that fell on shallow soil. Just my thoughts.

[~candice~]

Huh? I didn't use the word 'doctrine' at all .

[~candice~]

Huh? I didn't use the word 'doctrine' at all .

Oops! I wasn't saying you used the word doctrine.

But it is a principle (doctrine) found in the NT, shown here.

I think it is important to differentiate between the three different facets of this debate....

1. how we are saved,
2. the permanency of our salvation, and
3. how we know we are saved.

I'm only pontificating with Botz about #3 .

[Guest]

how we are saved

Jesus

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

the permanency of our salvation

Believers Are Restored For His Name's Sake

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:3

and how we know we are saved

Belief In The Word

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; John 17:20

And Calling Upon His Name

What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me? I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. Psalms 116:12-13