Hebraic v. Hellenistic Thought

[Guest shiloh357]

Imagine with me that objects from our day and age were put in a time capsule....amoung them a box of matches. Two Thousand years later the capsule is found and opened and from that box of matches they try to get hints about our time and culture. (If possible get a box of matches to look at)

By this point matches are long since an item obsolete so you wonder what you have. Read the box.

Strike on box??--- Why should i hit the box?

Keep away from children?--- Why stay away from children?

I could go on but i hope you get what i am saying. It is not that the people from our time are better or smarter or those from the later time dumber....only that what is a normal household word to us, matches, would be an unknown to them. There are "buzzwords" in scripture....words that were not explained as those they were spoken to would know what they refered to....but someone outside thier culture would need explained to them. So I think the point they are trying to get accross is NOT any feeling of being better as a jewsih person but rather that scripture (as any writing) needs to be looked at in context of the culture it is written in.

I am a jewish person who has several non-jewish friends....from time to time i will say or do something that they will have to ask me why as they are from a different culture even tho we live in the same time and city.....how much more in our lives would be different if we also lived during different times, in different lands.

It is not a matter of being "better" but rather just having different starting points when looking at scripture. When as a child i talked with my great aunt about her life in Europe before and during the war i did not understand nearly as much as i did later after studying the culture she lived in, the holocaust and how she lived then as a jewish female. I understood alot of her stories...but not always the significance of them at the time, I am sure there is still much i dont really understand but i know thinking of her stories in context of the time and culture she lived in has helped alot.

I think this is what they are trying to say...scripture is best understood when looked at from the standpoint of the culture it was written to. But regardless G-d will meet you where you are and use His words in your life if you let him. Knowledge isnt the most important part of studying--it is a heart to allow Hashem to conform your life to His standards.

Shalom

Good post, Azriella. Thank you!! Welcome to the boards. :flowers:

[nebula]

Welcome to the Boards, Azriella!

:flowers:

[bad biker]

No shoes?  OK I have never heard of that before.

But you guys are foot washers, right?

Excellent explanation Azriella! And welcome, now you can be the newbie! :il:

[Jedi4Yahweh]

I really think you guys are confusing psychology with culture. For instants two people can grow up in the same culture but have completely different ways of thinking and complete differnant values and qualities.

Yes I agree there is a difference between a Jewish culture and a Arab culture or a Asian culture or an American culture, African culture, Greek culture etc...

Paul refers to Jews and Greeks often because these were the two main cultures of that region during that time. Paul dealt very little or none with the Asian culture, African culture, European culture, or Native American culture, Hispanic culture etc...

I don't believe all people fall into two mind sets Hebrew or Greek. You fall into what ever culture you were brought up in.

Each culture brings both good and bad attributes.

[Guest yod]

Paul refers to Jews and Greeks often because these were the two main cultures of that region during that time. Paul dealt very little or none with the Asian culture, African culture, European culture, or Native American culture, Hispanic culture etc...

I don't believe all people fall into two mind sets Hebrew or Greek. You fall into what ever culture you were brought up in.

yeah...but we're talking about when the Bible was written.

The entire world had recently been conquored by Alexander the Great. Greek culture, philosophy, language, art, etc....was dominating Europe, Asia, and Africa. That is why its called "hellenistic" (greek) because it was the way most of the world interpreted life.

Each culture brings both good and bad attributes.

true...but we aren't comparing the value as much as the differences.

[wordsower]

But you guys are foot washers, right?

[nebula]

Each culture brings both good and bad attributes.

Would ya please get off this "better than" kick? :oww:

I really think you guys are confusing psychology with culture.  For instants two people can grow up in the same culture but have completely different ways of thinking and complete differnant values and qualities. . . . You fall into what ever culture you were brought up in.

Yeah - and our culture has its roots in the "Hellinistic" culture, and the people of the Bible were of the "Hebraic" culture.

Paul refers to Jews and Greeks often because these were the two main cultures of that region during that time.  Paul dealt very little or none with the Asian culture, African culture, European culture, or Native American culture, Hispanic culture etc...

Err . . . what about the Old Testament?

I don't believe all people fall into two mind sets Hebrew or Greek.

No, of course not!

The point is that the Bible was written from the Hebrew mindset - primarily. (Example, Paul had to explain to Philemon the Hebrew understanding of a person "standing in the place of" another.)

Our society has its roots in the Greek mindset.

When we read the Bible as if it were a scientific, logic, reasoning text - we miss the point of what is being said. If we read the Bible looking for "what did this mean to the people who wrote it" - we see the text as it was meant to be seen.

[Guest shiloh357]

I really think you guys are confusing psychology with culture. For instants two people can grow up in the same culture but have completely different ways of thinking and complete differnant values and qualities.

Yes I agree there is a difference between a Jewish culture and a Arab culture or a Asian culture or an American culture, African culture, Greek culture etc...

Paul refers to Jews and Greeks often because these were the two main cultures of that region during that time. Paul dealt very little or none with the Asian culture, African culture, European culture, or Native American culture, Hispanic culture etc...

I don't believe all people fall into two mind sets Hebrew or Greek. You fall into what ever culture you were brought up in.

Each culture brings both good and bad attributes.

No, we are not confusing culture and psychology.

The Bible was written from a Hebraic mindset. That is FACT, and it can be demonstrated. I have not tried to overburden people with examples, but they are numerous, and if anyone wants me too, I will post them.

What we are talking about Jedi, is learning what the Hebrew mindset is like, in general, and applying that when we read the Scriptures. It is amazing what you see when you do that. It is also amazing when you learn the culture, and certain terms and phrases in Scripture take on new life, and you can see things that formerly just went under your radar when reading the Scriptures.

The idea is to find out what the AUTHOR means when he uses certain words. There are idioms and other figures of speech in Scripture that are a part of the ancient culture of Israel and are not in current use in modern Israel or other parts of that region. For example, Paul said that he had a "thorn in the flesh." That was a common idiom in his day, and was the equivilant to our phrase "pain in the neck." It was used in Numbers 33 when referring to the Canaanites. People have tried to figure out what physical ailment Paul had, based on that idiom. He was not referring to a sickness in his body, but rather persecution from the enemy. That is just one example of what I mean.

It is important when reading a document such as the Scripture that was written so long ago, and by people who lived in such a different culture, time period and social environment, learn as much about that as we can to understand many of the issues that bear directly on what is being recorded in Scirpture. It helps us to understand how other people thought at that time, because it bears directly on why certain things are said.

1 Cor. 15:52

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This verse is reference to Rosh Hashannah (The Second Coming). I know this because of the reference to the last trumpet (shofar). There is another reference in Scirpture to the "great trumpet." It is referring to the Final Day of Judgement (Yom Kippur).

When you see things with a Hebraic context, you see that the entire New Testament is written in the language of the Festivals, and the sacrifices. When you start to see those things, certain verses begin to look much differently than they did before. You see new truths that were invisible before.

[Guest yod]

and here's another example of hellenism (I think?)

Yeshua's name is, of course, hebrew for SALVATION in the present tense...in other words it literally means "salvation right now"

An anti-missionary once told me (though I never tried to verify it) that the name "Jesus" comes from the Greek "Iesus" which means "son of Zeus" because that was their concept of what it meant to be the Son of God.

anyone want to verify or deny that (with some factual basis) ? Let's don't waste any space with opinions of the veracity of this....frankly, I don't care because its not a big issue to me.

"IF" that is true it would be a good example of how a hellenistic perspective would relate to the New Testament completely different than the hebraic.

[Guest shiloh357]

and here's another example of hellenism (I think?)

Yeshua's name is, of course, hebrew for SALVATION in the present tense...in other words it literally means "salvation right now"

An anti-missionary once told me (though I never tried to verify it) that the name "Jesus" comes from the Greek "Iesus" which means "son of Zeus" because that was their concept of what it meant to be the Son of God.

anyone want to verify or deny that (with some factual basis) ? Let's don't waste any space with opinions of the veracity of this....frankly, I don't care because its not a big issue to me.

"IF" that is true it would be a good example of how a hellenistic perspective would relate to the New Testament completely different than the hebraic.

The name Jesus is simply the result of passing the name "Yeshua" through the filter of several languages. It is not a Greek name at all, and has nothing to do with Zeus. In fact, these two names are spelled and pronounced quite distinctly in Greek. The word yeshuah is Hebrew for "salvation," and the Greek New Testament tells us he was given the name because he would "save his people from their sins."(Matthew 1:21) Since the Greek language has no equivalent of the "sh" sound and Greek grammar expects an "os" ending for masculine singular nouns in the nominative case, Yeshua becomes Yesous or Iesous. The "ou" is pronounced "oo" as in "spook" so the same name in Latin is spelled Iesus (or later Jesus), and pronounced "Yay-soos." (The letter "J" was originally just a variant of the letter "I"). Since writing was introduced to western Europe via the Roman Church, the Latin Bible with its Latin spelling was brought into those countries along with the Latin alphabet. However, pronunciation of the Latin letters varies among the different languages, so in English Jesus is pronounced "Gee-zuss," in Spanish it