A discussion on doctrine and creationism

[~candice~]

A loose topic, I know .

But I am starting this thread primarily so D-9 and I have a place to continue our discussion from this thread

about death, evolution, "essential doctrine" and whatever other topics pop up along the way.

[enoob57]

A loose topic, I know .

But I am starting this thread primarily so D-9 and I have a place to continue our discussion from this thread

about death, evolution, "essential doctrine" and whatever other topics pop up along the way.

With the proper Biblical doctrine-> death is a different event, not end of hope and desire, but of getting

away from all that is wrong and harmful to life and giving God the Glory due Him... Love, Steven

[~candice~]

Hi Candice,

This designation of essential and non essential doctrine is an interesting one, something I've thought about quite a lot in the past.

I think there is salvational doctrine, but that is very minimal. The struggle I have is to put bounds on what it means to "believe in Christ". Three words but so rich. We know what believe means, a very strong faith and trust that manifests itself in actions. The real question is whether people believe in CHRIST. When the bible says to believe in CHRIST, does it include in that the divinity of Christ, His virgin birth, His bodily death and resurrection, etc etc etc? I have settled for an understanding that it refers to the biblical Christ as He is described, but that we all see dimly, and that probably only the Lord knows if we have drifted so far from the correct intended meaning of the person of Christ to not be putting faith in Him anymore, but in someone else. I find the death, resurrection, and divinity of Christ to absolutely highest on my list of "essentials" for this reason.

I agree that much of it revolves around the meaning of believing in Christ. I admit I'm ridiculously liberal on this front, imploring religious pluralism; to paraphrase a progressive Christian I can't recall who, 'Jesus is the only way to salvation, and that way is known by all the cultures of the world'. In this sense having Christ in you isn't a conscious decision of faith exclaiming belief in a particular individual and specific doctrine about him, rather it is a way of life that embodies the highest virtues we can aspire, with the central pillar being love. In essence, it isn't belief of or about, but how you walk through life in love; to walk in love is to walk in Christ.

I got to go, more later.

Wow yes, that is incredibly liberal. Far more liberal than what I can tolerate, sorry. I don't read anything in the bible equating belief in Christ with "a way of life that embodies the highest virtues we can aspire, with the central pillar being love".

Christ makes specific requests of us, to pick up our cross and follow Him. To die to ourselves. To tell others of Him. I really think this has become so liberal it has drifted outside of the bounds of Christianity.... it is missing the whole JESUS part.

I'm not trying to be offensive, I just don't see the difference between what you just said, and, "live a good life and everything will be ok".

[Guest]

Jesus?

And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mark 13:21-22

~

.... religious pluralism; to paraphrase a progressive Christian I can't recall who, 'Jesus is the only way to salvation, and that way is known by all the cultures of the world'. In this sense having Christ in you isn't a conscious decision of faith exclaiming belief in a particular individual and specific doctrine about him, rather it is a way of life that embodies the highest virtues we can aspire, with the central pillar being love. In essence, it isn't belief of or about, but how you walk through life in love; to walk in love is to walk in Christ....

To Walk

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14

In The Christ

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Is To Walk In Truth

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17

And The Truth Will

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Set You Free

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

~

Without Faith In Jesus

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:15

With Faith In The LORD Jesus

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:13-14

Your Choice

~

Believe And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[nebula]

I think Christ's physical death and resurrection was symbolic of the defeat of spiritual death that accompanied Christ's victory over sin, which is evil as sin is evil.

Where do you believe sin entered the picture in human existence?

Likewise, why the need for redemption if we are mere animals? What separated us from God?

Or if we are products of natural consequences, by what evolutionary process do we have a spirit - if you believe in a spirit at all?

[MorningGlory]

Where do you believe sin entered the picture in human existence?

You nailed it Neb. Your question exposes the absurdity of evolutionary theism.

When did orange (no sin, animal instinct) turn into red (sin, human free will)?

The secular answer to this is obvious.

Ciao

- viole

It's pretty obvious that the 'secular answer' amounts to no answer at all....if we are to go by the above.

[~candice~]

Where do you believe sin entered the picture in human existence?

You nailed it Neb. Your question exposes the absurdity of evolutionary theism.

When did orange (no sin, animal instinct) turn into red (sin, human free will)?

The secular answer to this is obvious.

Ciao

- viole

Well that is a clever refutation but I don't think it works. A Christian believes in a supernatural God who intervenes in creation and hands out a soul and is the giver and taker of life.

If you believe in THAT kind of God, there is nothing stopping Him from intervening at a particular point in history to make one particular "monkey" a soul and become man.

It isn't what I think happened but it would still fit with theism. The issue with evolution is not the soul but with death as a creative process.

[nebula]

Where do you believe sin entered the picture in human existence?

You nailed it Neb. Your question exposes the absurdity of evolutionary theism.

When did orange (no sin, animal instinct) turn into red (sin, human free will)?

The secular answer to this is obvious.

Ciao

- viole

I know you all don't even believe in a soul or spirit, so the question to you is moot, isn't it?

Unless your aim is to turn D-9 away from theism entirely?

[Guest]

Where do you believe sin entered the picture in human existence....

When did orange (no sin, animal instinct) turn into red (sin, human free will)....

I know you all don't even believe in a soul or spirit, so the question to you is moot, isn't it.... Unless your aim is to turn D-9 away from theism entirely....

Animal Instinct

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Romans 8:22

Ain't What It Once Was

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Genesis 1:30

And Sin Is The Reason

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

Still Jesus Saves

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

Really

And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. Isaiah 65:24-25

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[JohnD]

The assumption that God is sitting back observing presupposes the secular interpretation of daily existence being devoid of any supernatural intervention.

While there is obviously the aspect of physics that certain vehicles are in the universe are in effect wound up by the Creator and "put on automatic..." autopilot in and of itself defines that which is transcendent does it not? And the inexplicable along the lines of the physical norms are themselves evidence that more is going on here than just an accidental universe winding down to its ultimate entropic state.

And while we are on the subject... how did anything begin from nothing?