We Hold These Truths To Be Self Evident

[Guest]

We hold these truths to be self evident... By Clenard Childress

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...."

~

In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor... And have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: "that God governs in the affairs of man." And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better then the builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our little, partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and a byword down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessings on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business.

http://www.renewamer...hildress/100625

~

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. Psalms 127:1

~

Thoughts?

[OneLight]

I think the piece was right on! Until we do surrender to He who created us all, we will continue to disintegrate as a nation. Many celebrate the fact that we no longer have a divide along racial lines while they accept the death of unborn babies. Where is the life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for them?

[simplejeff]

Notice IN the link in the op : >>>>

..... "We hold these truths to be self evident...

Stop! Hold on and think very clearly for a moment. As a nation we never obeyed the principle... of the most distinguished parable... of the most quoted source. America never completely held to the espoused truth! Evil came immediately and snatched it away just as described in scripture."

......

On 2/25/2012 at 11:03 AM, OneLight said:

Until we do surrender to He who created us all, we will continue to disintegrate as a nation.

"We"  as a nation NEVER DID.  (surrender to YHWH (GOD) ) .   It was always ONLY a remnant,  and NOT the leaders usually.  NOT the laws.   (which now are oppressing and killing more and more people every day for the last 100 some years) ...

[OneLight]

9 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Notice IN the link in the op : >>>>

..... "We hold these truths to be self evident...

Stop! Hold on and think very clearly for a moment. As a nation we never obeyed the principle... of the most distinguished parable... of the most quoted source. America never completely held to the espoused truth! Evil came immediately and snatched it away just as described in scripture."

......

"We"  as a nation NEVER DID.  (surrender to YHWH (GOD) ) .   It was always ONLY a remnant,  and NOT the leaders usually.  NOT the laws.   (which now are oppressing and killing more and more people every day for the last 100 some years) ...

Sorry Jeff ... I have a hard time remembering what I did yesterday.  I hope you don't expect me to remember my train of thought over 4 years ago.

[thilipsis]

On 2/25/2012 at 11:21 AM, Guest said:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...." (Declaration of Independence)

In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor... And have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: "that God governs in the affairs of man." And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better then the builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our little, partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and a byword down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or conquest. I therefore beg leave to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessings on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business. (Benjamin Franklin, Constitutional Convention Philadelphia)

I recognized that immediately as Benjamin Franklin's address to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. The delegates had nearly given up when Ben Franklin made that speech, called for prayer and as a group they all attended church, not one but several. It wouldn't be long before the Constitution was ratified, many people, myself included, think this moment in history was a miracle that resulted from prayer. The expression that 'we hold these truths to be self evident' did not originate in the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was quoting John Locke, a contemporary with and close friend of Sir Isaac Newton. While Newton was turning natural science upside down Locke was proposing a new kind of Constitutional Republic that would be built from ground up, the power behind the authority would be the people not a hand full of aristocrats.

The American Revolution was sandwiched between to profoundly Christian revivals, the Great Awakening 1 and 2. The colonies had been founded by eight charters signed by William and Mary and they were unanimously protestant. While not always godly the colonies and the newly formed states were profoundly Christian:

This is especially true of men living in free countries. When the religion of a people is destroyed, doubt gets hold of the higher powers of the intellect and half paralyzes all the others. Every man accustoms himself to having only confused and changing notions on the subjects most interesting to his fellow creatures and himself. His opinions are ill-defended and easily abandoned; and, in despair of ever solving by himself the hard problems respecting the destiny of man, he ignobly submits to think no more about them. (Tocqueville, Democracy in America)  

People don't really know US history because the role of religion in the rise of Democracy in America is deprecated by unbelieving secular academics. The fact is America was founded on profoundly Christian principles that remain safe and sound to this day. I went through the culture wars on discussion boards where the secular fanatics ranted and raved about abortion, creationism and gay rights. Abortion on demand is declining, creationism has given rise to a number of ministries with global reach and the gay rights agenda is being imposed judicially, which means they will never have the moral consensus they need to be accepted as normal. The Pew has been running a poll on Creationism vs. Evolution and those who believe man was created 6000 years ago pretty much like he is now has remained between 42% and 44% for the twenty years the polls has ran. That is even in spite of the fact of a wholesale full court press. Christian conviction is resilient, just because you don't hear about the nice little church people who work and pray and take care of their families doesn't mean their not still out there in strong numbers, they just don't go on TV and radio to promote their lifestyle. 

Grace and peace,
Mark

Edited December 19, 2016 by thilipsis

[simplejeff]

On 12/17/2016 at 10:38 AM, OneLight said:

Sorry Jeff ... I have a hard time remembering what I did yesterday.  I hope you don't expect me to remember my train of thought over 4 years ago.

?  remember ? ......   TODAY,  the country , et al,  are not surrendered.   No memory needed really. 

You did say/ realize when this was posted, although not necessarily,  that "UNTIL.....  surrender ......   disintegrate as a nation.." so you

likely did understand some day that this country has not surrendered to the CREATOR YHWH in Y'SHUA nor lived by faith and grace in HIM.

The evidence against Britain and the USA is overwhelming, daily.  (not just in the past)

 

On 2/25/2012 at 11:03 AM, OneLight said:

Until we do surrender to He who created us all, we will continue to disintegrate as a nation.

 

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

?  remember ? ......   TODAY,  the country , et al,  are not surrendered.   No memory needed really. 

You did say/ realize when this was posted, although not necessarily,  that "UNTIL.....  surrender ......   disintegrate as a nation.." so you

likely did understand some day that this country has not surrendered to the CREATOR YHWH in Y'SHUA nor lived by faith and grace in HIM.

The evidence against Britain and the USA is overwhelming, daily.  (not just in the past)

I agree that the nation is not a Christian majority any longer.  As for never was, that is debatable.  When I speak of a nation, in this case, I speak of the people, not the land or government.

[simplejeff]

.

On 12/21/2016 at 5:25 PM, OneLight said:

I agree that the nation is not a Christian majority any longer.  As for never was, that is debatable.  When I speak of a nation, in this case, I speak of the people, not the land or government.

Yes,  the remnant people (obviously not nearly all the people). 

The people who the government has continually trampled,  oppressed, exterminated,  on whims  - directed by the prince of the power of the air .

Not only,  not just the believers, as also the Native Americans,  the Alaska Territory occupants (Eskimoes?) ,  even later the blacks (African-Americans?) , Japanese,  youngsters (born and unborn),  teens,  young and middle age adults, the elderly,  

all and anyone "in the way" of "progress" or of someone's ambition......   Just like in Germany when young , old, and sick first were taken out of the way,  then others.....  yes, just like Corrie ten Boom openly warned us about from the end of the 2nd WW thru the 80's (and longer with her testimony in book and video format (TODAY) ) .....

i.e. OP:  life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is NOT in the BIBLE, NOT for the USA population goal, NOT the goal of the world (no, not at all).

That is,  the LIFE Y'SHUA offers is ETERNAL LIFE.    The liberty is freedom from the penalty of sin, and from the power of sin, the flesh and the devil and the world.    JOY , PEACE, and RIGHTEOUSNESS is with SALVATION, without measure,  sheer grace from the FATHER in HEAVEN. (no matter that in the world we necessarily suffer much).

EVERY GOOD GIFT is from the FATHER IN HEAVEN,  FROM ABOVE.    TRUST HIM.

 

As YHWH permits

[Bill16652]

On 12/19/2016 at 11:28 AM, thilipsis said:

I recognized that immediately as Benjamin Franklin's address to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. The delegates had nearly given up when Ben Franklin made that speech, called for prayer and as a group they all attended church, not one but several. It wouldn't be long before the Constitution was ratified, many people, myself included, think this moment in history was a miracle that resulted from prayer. The expression that 'we hold these truths to be self evident' did not originate in the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was quoting John Locke, a contemporary with and close friend of Sir Isaac Newton. While Newton was turning natural science upside down Locke was proposing a new kind of Constitutional Republic that would be built from ground up, the power behind the authority would be the people not a hand full of aristocrats.

The American Revolution was sandwiched between to profoundly Christian revivals, the Great Awakening 1 and 2. The colonies had been founded by eight charters signed by William and Mary and they were unanimously protestant. While not always godly the colonies and the newly formed states were profoundly Christian:

This is especially true of men living in free countries. When the religion of a people is destroyed, doubt gets hold of the higher powers of the intellect and half paralyzes all the others. Every man accustoms himself to having only confused and changing notions on the subjects most interesting to his fellow creatures and himself. His opinions are ill-defended and easily abandoned; and, in despair of ever solving by himself the hard problems respecting the destiny of man, he ignobly submits to think no more about them. (Tocqueville, Democracy in America)  

People don't really know US history because the role of religion in the rise of Democracy in America is deprecated by unbelieving secular academics. The fact is America was founded on profoundly Christian principles that remain safe and sound to this day. I went through the culture wars on discussion boards where the secular fanatics ranted and raved about abortion, creationism and gay rights. Abortion on demand is declining, creationism has given rise to a number of ministries with global reach and the gay rights agenda is being imposed judicially, which means they will never have the moral consensus they need to be accepted as normal. The Pew has been running a poll on Creationism vs. Evolution and those who believe man was created 6000 years ago pretty much like he is now has remained between 42% and 44% for the twenty years the polls has ran. That is even in spite of the fact of a wholesale full court press. Christian conviction is resilient, just because you don't hear about the nice little church people who work and pray and take care of their families doesn't mean their not still out there in strong numbers, they just don't go on TV and radio to promote their lifestyle. 

Grace and peace,
Mark

Totally agree and I fear this nation has gone tofar to turn around,  I also can see thsat we have to fall as a major power to fulfill prophecy.  That explains the leaders we have had lately and the one rising

[thilipsis]

56 minutes ago, Bill16652 said:

Totally agree and I fear this nation has gone tofar to turn around,  I also can see thsat we have to fall as a major power to fulfill prophecy.  That explains the leaders we have had lately and the one rising

People forget the forces that forged the scientific revolution and the rise of democracy had their roots in the Protestant Reformation. I think in the wake of the American Revolution there was a religious lateral drift into a more emotive sensibility. Our seminaries have gone to seed and after generations upon generations we got wave after wave of philosophical atheism and naturalism put in theological terms. A Christian moral consensus would be a profound force in US politics except its working in reverse. That's not on elected officials it's been far too much compromise on doctrine and moral issues and that fiasco is on professing Christians selling out to the spirit of the age.

Edited January 3, 2017 by thilipsis