Can Women Lead The Flock?

[~candice~]

Women have an extremely difficult position given them by God and I am learning to respect that more each day as I interact with them.

I feel for women as they all have to deal with the Genesis 3:16 curse, her desire is to usurp the authority of the man. Whether it is ever proper for a woman to teach a man, I don't know, as Paul drew upon the Genesis account when explaining his reasoning. But I do know that most women I meet try to teach me something about God that they believe to be true. The exception being the one who doesn't believe in God. Women offer to 'teach' men here on these forums, rebuking, reproving and correcting as they go freely and willingly (God only knows how many bite their tongues until they bleed though). I am just glad that I was not made a woman as I don't think that I could refrain my tongue either. I feel for my sisters in Christ. Especially for those who have the truth and are introduced to men who are in error. May God give each and every sister the wisdom, knowledge and understanding of when to speak, how to speak, and when to hold their peace.

In His Love,

Gary

Teaching on this forum is more discussion, and not domineering / leading men. I personally don't see an issue with it (obviously ). And I don't think this is what Paul had in mind when he spoke to Timothy. The issue is leadership of the entire body.

[Floatingaxe]

Going to read the introduction to the book of Timothy. Still feel as though as man is the head of the marriage....that he should be the same in the church. If I am wrong, then hopefully God will set me straight. Just do not see how women would be teachers when it clearly states man...over and over...like in this passage here that I shared also above. Again in Timothy.

Both the husband and the wife are the head of a family---together...under Jesus Christ. As far as the Church is concerned, only Jesus is the head. Men are not heads over women. In the church, women serve God alongside men, shoulder to shoulder, doing the work they are called by God to do. No one has the right to detain anyone from their anointing.

In Christ there is no male or female, bond or free, Jew or Gentile. I don't know why so many people forget that one.

[AnotherSinner]

Going to read the introduction to the book of Timothy. Still feel as though as man is the head of the marriage....that he should be the same in the church. If I am wrong, then hopefully God will set me straight. Just do not see how women would be teachers when it clearly states man...over and over...like in this passage here that I shared also above. Again in Timothy.

Both the husband and the wife are the head of a family---together...under Jesus Christ. As far as the Church is concerned, only Jesus is the head. Men are not heads over women. In the church, women serve God alongside men, shoulder to shoulder, doing the work they are called by God to do. No one has the right to detain anyone from their anointing.

In Christ there is no male or female, bond or free, Jew or Gentile. I don't know why so many people forget that one.

Gentile or Jew is not the topic here. Asking if the Bible supports women leading the church....which I can see you believe. Right? Going to likely have to agree to disagree here as I do not see scripture supporting that.

[Floatingaxe]

Going to read the introduction to the book of Timothy. Still feel as though as man is the head of the marriage....that he should be the same in the church. If I am wrong, then hopefully God will set me straight. Just do not see how women would be teachers when it clearly states man...over and over...like in this passage here that I shared also above. Again in Timothy.

Both the husband and the wife are the head of a family---together...under Jesus Christ. As far as the Church is concerned, only Jesus is the head. Men are not heads over women. In the church, women serve God alongside men, shoulder to shoulder, doing the work they are called by God to do. No one has the right to detain anyone from their anointing.

In Christ there is no male or female, bond or free, Jew or Gentile. I don't know why so many people forget that one.

Gentile or Jew is not the topic here. Asking if the Bible supports women leading the church....which I can see you believe. Right? Going to likely have to agree to disagree here as I do not see scripture supporting that.

There is no scripture that instructs any woman not to lead. We as Christians are all leaders in this world, as Jesus calls us the light of the world and the salt of the earth. We are containers of His truth. I was merely saying what Paul says. Are you familiar with Galatians?

Galatians 3:28

There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

[~candice~]

Going to read the introduction to the book of Timothy. Still feel as though as man is the head of the marriage....that he should be the same in the church. If I am wrong, then hopefully God will set me straight. Just do not see how women would be teachers when it clearly states man...over and over...like in this passage here that I shared also above. Again in Timothy.

Both the husband and the wife are the head of a family---together...under Jesus Christ. As far as the Church is concerned, only Jesus is the head. Men are not heads over women. In the church, women serve God alongside men, shoulder to shoulder, doing the work they are called by God to do. No one has the right to detain anyone from their anointing.

In Christ there is no male or female, bond or free, Jew or Gentile. I don't know why so many people forget that one.

Gentile or Jew is not the topic here. Asking if the Bible supports women leading the church....which I can see you believe. Right? Going to likely have to agree to disagree here as I do not see scripture supporting that.

There is no scripture that instructs any woman not to lead. We as Christians are all leaders in this world, as Jesus calls us the light of the world and the salt of the earth. We are containers of His truth. I was merely saying what Paul says. Are you familiar with Galatians?

Galatians 3:28

There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Oh no, perhaps one of the most misunderstood scriptures ever!

Obviously, we still have males and females, and we still have Jews and Greeks. The idea is not that we are all identical, but that we have the same access to God via the Lord Jesus Christ! That is what the context of that verse is. It does not mean that males and females are identical in all respects, because we are not, and the rest of scripture makes it clear that women are not to be pastors over men. Equal access to God via Christ does not mean that His design for males and females and submission has been revoked.

[Floatingaxe]

Male and female are not identical under God, but they are equal, and equally anointed in their callings, and giftings. There are no gifts of the Holy Spirit that are especially for a certain gender, so if a woman is gifted with the gift or calling of teacher, or pastor, or prophet (which many pastors or preachers also have), God expects that woman to use it. He qualifies the called---man doesn't.

[~candice~]

Male and female are not identical under God, but they are equal, and equally anointed in their callings, and giftings. There are no gifts of the Holy Spirit that are especially for a certain gender, so if a woman is gifted with the gift or calling of teacher, or pastor, or prophet (which many pastors or preachers also have), God expects that woman to use it. He qualifies the called---man doesn't.

Where does it say that though? I don't find any scripture that says that God has called women to pastor, or to teach men with authority. It isn't trying to squash anyone's calling, I simply don't think He has called women to roles that violate the order given in scripture. Where does it say they are equally anointed in callings and giftings?

[Matthitjah]

An interesting spin is this. God is in the Restoration business. In the beginning God looked and saw no help mate for Adam. They even looked to the animals and found no one that could help Adam. God then took a rib from Adams side (from Adams side not from beneath him or even above him) and made a Woman to help Adam. Adams job was to take dominion over and to subdue the Creation that God had made.

Ge 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Ge 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

The command to subdue and to dominate were for both the man and the woman.

Originally, the man and the woman were meant to rule together. In Christ all things are in the process of restoration to the original intent.

There's more but that's just a thought to start with.

Peace,

Dave

[~candice~]

Interesting thought Dave. But they were to together have dominion over creation, not for Eve to have dominion over Adam . In general terms, placing humanity at the top of the dominance pyramid, doesn't really inform us about the dominion type relationship between males and females, IMHO.

[Matthitjah]

Interesting thought Dave. But they were to together have dominion over creation, not for Eve to have dominion over Adam . In general terms, placing humanity at the top of the dominance pyramid, doesn't really inform us about the dominion type relationship between males and females, IMHO.

...... and apparently neither did Adam have dominion over Eve for she was taken from his side and the command to subdue and have dominion was for the two of them.

Only after the fall do we see God placing him over her in the effect that she would have a desire for him, and that he would rule over her;

Ge 3:16

¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.

...... but in what respect?

Nu 30:6

And if she had indeed a husband, when she vowed, or uttered anything out of her lips, with which she bound her soul;

Nu 30:7

And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds with which she bound her soul shall stand.

Nu 30:8

But if her husband forbade her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, with which she bound her soul, of none effect: and the LORD shall forgive her.

However;

Nu 30:9

But every vow of a widow, and of her that is divorced, with which they have bound their souls, shall stand against her.

Very interesting.

Sio the man has authority over her in the role of protection not domineering. He is watching out for his own flesh.

Regardless, How does this effect a woman in Christ? Is she not a new Creation with respect to the original? Is God not in the process of restoration? Does God now view the woman as still bound by the curse?

I want to add that we are now talking about the situation in regards to the work of the Lord.