Bold Believer Posted May 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Just what was John speaking of in this passage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. OSAS Posted May 16, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/03/1951 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Just what was John speaking of in this passage? Greetings The sin to death for the believer is certainly NOT a condemnation to hell. But there is a sin that displeases God such that your physical life is terminated. God will bring you home rather than let you profane His holy name through some perversion. I'm really surprised He doesn't do this more often than He does. Dr. OSAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,264 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,993 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have always been taught that the sin unto death was something against a civil law with death as a punishment. Such as murder. If we pray for the person who is guilty of that and has repented, his soul can be saved but not his life. It made sense to me so I really never researched it deeply. I'll be interested in what other have to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2012 Mark 3:28-29 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” Luke 12:10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2012 Mark 3:28-29 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” Luke 12:10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven." That is the unforgiveable sin, which is not the same as the sin unto death. The first is unbelief, the second is that described by Dr. OSAS, above. Is this unforgivable sin a sin unto death? All other sins are forgivable except for this sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 17, 2012 This is a difficult passage of scripture that has as many interpretations as there are doctrines. This is a passage that ends up on the cutting room floor due to the fact that it doesn't fit in with the core doctrines of some well established Christian denominations. Carnal Christianity, people trying to live out and study the scriptures carnally, end up having to stuff these things inside of their neatly packaged theological studies without causing conflict. My hope is that I have finally gotten away from that, as that is what I was for so long, and moved on to waiting on the spirit of the living God to reveal the truth of the scripture unto me when I am ready to receive it. 1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. 1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1Jo 5:19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 1Jo 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. As I have read this passage over time, along with the rest of the counsel of God, I have been led to believe that it simply speaks about willful deliberate sin versus ignorant or sins of weakness. Many do not agree. Please don't feel the need to correct me as I am not in a place of being able to receive it as my conviction of this as truth is great. I simply ask others to consider the words here and how they show that there are two different categories of sin spoken of here and not 2 different sins period. The sin spoken of is said to be able to be discerned of which category it belongs in by sight, visual/perception, as one sees/percieves their brother sin in this manner. The passage is about praying inside the will of God and receiving what we ask for because we do so. Verse 18 contrasts two things as well. A man who does not continue in known sin versus one who does. One who continually keeps himself in the spirit that Satan cannot touch him versus one who doesn't. 19 says that we know the whole world continues in sin. Then he clarifies that Jesus came and showed us the Father through his own manifestation and declaration. That we can have a perfect 'image' or 'idol' of God in Christ. So John finishes the book/letter by warning us to keep ourselves from 'idols' or 'false images of God'. Having a false image of God will cause a person to err in their ways. There are those out there who believe that they can continue in willful deliberate known sin and be in good standing with God through the blood of Jesus Christ. I disagree and beseech each one to be reconciled unto God through willful obedience unto righteousness as it can be known in Christ Jesus by putting on the Lord and walking in him. God is not mocked a man shall reap what he sews. We do however have this treasure in earthen vessels and can sin out of ignorance as Christians. I find that most sin from my brothers and sisters comes in the form of weakness though. They believe they can do things that they cannot and find themselves in sin. They find themselves suddenly faced with something that they didn't see coming and sin. They are just like Peter and find themselves broken inside over their failures, weeping at the throne of grace once again. I have found myself here on occasion. The sin unto death is that which is willful and deliberate that can be seen in companion verses through out scripture. It is a sin 'unto' death as in it leads to death. Hebrews chapter 4 covers this as well when it speaks warning us not to let an evil heart of unbelief spring up in us causing us to depart from the living God. It speaks of the process of apostasy. Mark 4 also carries this warning telling us to be careful to heed what we hear or lose what we already have been given. Apostasy is a process of falling out of love with the God you first came to love because he first loved you. It is real. It has definite consequences. Righteousness equals revelation while disobedience equals confusion. In Jesus Name, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 The problem I have having with the passage is that the Greek is not as clear as it is in some other passages. I have all of the various versions up and some read 'there is a sin which leads unto death' while others read 'there is sin which leads unto death'. So one question is should there be an 'a' at the above point in English? By saying 'there is a sin...' then we should be considering a particular sin. If the correct translation is 'there is sin unto death' then it changes the meaning entirely, because that could mean the act of sinning until one must be removed because they bring reproach on Christ, or that there are multiple sins which lead to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2012 If one sins and dies without coming to Jesus and asking forgiveness for all his sin - that is sin unto death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I guess it is Ok to say that you don't really know the definitive answer to a question and would have to study it a heap further before you could comment, at the risk of guessing...... So be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The problem I have having with the passage is that the Greek is not as clear as it is in some other passages. I have all of the various versions up and some read 'there is a sin which leads unto death' while others read 'there is sin which leads unto death'. So one question is should there be an 'a' at the above point in English? By saying 'there is a sin...' then we should be considering a particular sin. If the correct translation is 'there is sin unto death' then it changes the meaning entirely, because that could mean the act of sinning until one must be removed because they bring reproach on Christ, or that there are multiple sins which lead to death. The illusion is that 'a' would make it a particular sin but that is not the case. 'a' can simply define type which can then be described through an adjective such as 'caffeinated' when speaking of coffee. There is 'a coffee' that leads unto putting pep in your step while there is a coffee that does not. Both are coffee none the less but one gives you a life while the other just give you the flavor. They are caffeinated versus decaf. Two types of coffee. It is all in the unspoken adjective that is supported by the surrounding text in 1 John 5. In Jesus Name, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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