The Rapture by Terry James

[missmuffet]

43 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said:

The Bible clear, As the Son He does not know, But God does.  It is beyond our understanding.  I just believe what the Bible says, not what some website said or says. These are Jesus Words not mine.   Sorry.

Yes, Jesus does know now. If you choose not to believe that it is your choice. You did read my post? It explained.

[RustyAngeL]

Yes I read the whole post, Whatever you choose to believe.

[seeking the lost]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:15 PM, HAZARD said:

That passage, John 16:33, has nothing to do with the coming great tribulation. Here are dozens of Scriptures proving why.

Jesus predicted, expect world hatred, (John 15:18-21),

Because the world hates reproof (John 3:19), 

Because Its evils are exposed by Christian living (Romans 12;2; Titus 2:11-12).

Because darkness is exposed by Christian light (John 3:18-20; Phil. 2;15).

Because the world is blind (2 Cor. 4;4).

Because Christians are not of it (John 15:19; 17:14-16). 

Because its a war with Christians (John 16:33; Eph. 6:12; 1 John 5:4).

Because it has a natural enmity against God (Jas. 4:4; Matt. 18:7). Because Christians hate its ways (1 John 2:15-17).

Because Christians live segregated from the world (Jas. 1:27;Romans 12:2; 2 Peter 2;20). Because the world is ignorant of Christians experiences(Gal.2:20; 2 Cor. 5:17).

Because it is ignorant of God (v 21).

John 15:18-21;

 18, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
 19, If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
 20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
 21, But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

I here you saying we will have trouble and be hated but we do not have to worry about some future tribulation.  Is that correct?

Do you believe in the pre resurrection rapture?  I do not see any early out.  Not only that, there is danger in adding a rapture and a resurrection where there is not one.

Edited October 13, 2016 by seeking the lost
punctuation

[HAZARD]

22 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Yes, Jesus does know now. If you choose not to believe that it is your choice. You did read my post? It explained.

Hi missmuffet.

Date setting or guessing dates is valueless. The exact time of the second advent is unknown to men, angels AND EVEN TO JESUS AS HE HIMSELF SAYS in a red letter KJV Bible.

Mark 13:32 clearly states that Jesus said: "  V. 32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Both Jesus and the Father are God, but Jesus is in subjection to the Father and Jesus always does His Father's will:

John 5:30, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

And for some reason the Father has kept the timing of the second advent to Himself.

In Acts 1:6-7, we read:

V. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
   

V.  7, And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put IN HIS OWN POWER.

These two Scriptures prove Jesus does not know the time. All date setting of some preachers, some men and some churches who think they know more than they can possibly know is valueless and confuses people who truly want to follow Christ and believe His Word.

[HAZARD]

10 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

I here you saying we will have trouble and be hated but we do not have to worry about some future tribulation.  Is that correct?

Do you believe in the pre resurrection rapture?  I do not see any early out.  Not only that, there is danger in adding a rapture and a resurrection where there is not one.

There will be a pre-rapture of the saints and here are the reasons for it:

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not directly to the Earth but in the air where Christ meets the saints and takes them to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father (John14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16 , 17).

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the pre-trib., Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming,  the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[missmuffet]

20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Hi missmuffet.

Date setting or guessing dates is valueless. The exact time of the second advent is unknown to men, angels AND EVEN TO JESUS AS HE HIMSELF SAYS in a red letter KJV Bible.

Mark 13:32 clearly states that Jesus said: "  V. 32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Both Jesus and the Father are God, but Jesus is in subjection to the Father and does His Father will and for some reason the Father has kept the timing of the second advent to Himself.

In Acts 1:6-7, we read:

V. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
   

V.  7, And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put IN HIS OWN POWER.

These two Scriptures prove Jesus does not know the time. All date setting of some preachers, some men and some churches who think they know more than they can possibly know is valueless and confuses people who truly want to follow Christ and believe His Word.

Jesus now knows when He will come back.

When Jesus spoke these words to the disciples, even He had no knowledge of the date and time of His return. Although Jesus was fully God (John 1:1, 14), when He became a man, He voluntarily restricted the use of certain divine attributes (Philippians 2:6–8). He did not manifest them unless directed by the Father (John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38). He demonstrated His omniscience on several occasions (cf. John 2:25; 3:13), but He voluntarily restricted that omniscience to only those things God wanted Him to know during the days of His humanity (John 15:15). Such was the case regarding the knowledge of the date and time of His return. After He was resurrected, Jesus resumed His full divine knowledge (cf. Matthew 28:18; Acts 1:7).

Matthew 24:36 clearly states that the Father alone knows when Jesus' return will be. Verses such as John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28-29; 10:30; 12:49; 14:28, 31; and Matthew 26:39, 42 demonstrate Jesus' submission to the Father as well as their Oneness in the Godhead. Yes, they are both God. But some things Jesus had apparently chosen to "give up the rights" to be privy to during His earthly ministry (see Philippians 2:5-11). Jesus, now exalted in Heaven, surely knows all, including the timing of His Second Coming.

https://gotquestions.org/Jesus-know-return.html

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Jesus now knows when He will come back.

When Jesus spoke these words to the disciples, even He had no knowledge of the date and time of His return. Although Jesus was fully God (John 1:1, 14), when He became a man, He voluntarily restricted the use of certain divine attributes (Philippians 2:6–8). He did not manifest them unless directed by the Father (John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38). He demonstrated His omniscience on several occasions (cf. John 2:25; 3:13), but He voluntarily restricted that omniscience to only those things God wanted Him to know during the days of His humanity (John 15:15). Such was the case regarding the knowledge of the date and time of His return. After He was resurrected, Jesus resumed His full divine knowledge (cf. Matthew 28:18; Acts 1:7).

Matthew 24:36 clearly states that the Father alone knows when Jesus' return will be. Verses such as John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28-29; 10:30; 12:49; 14:28, 31; and Matthew 26:39, 42 demonstrate Jesus' submission to the Father as well as their Oneness in the Godhead. Yes, they are both God. But some things Jesus had apparently chosen to "give up the rights" to be privy to during His earthly ministry (see Philippians 2:5-11). Jesus, now exalted in Heaven, surely knows all, including the timing of His Second Coming.

https://gotquestions.org/Jesus-know-return.html

Thank you missmuffet for your reply.

I agree Jesus did restrict Himself of His divine attributes while on Earth and became a man so He could die for mankind. Once He was baptized and was filled with the Holy Spirit He could read men's minds, raise the dead, turn water into wine, feed five thousand with five loaves, and He could have said, Its not up to us to know the exact time and that would have been that, but instead He said, even He did not know, so I will go with what Jesus Himself said. When He was raised by the Father, returned to Heaven and came back and said: Matthew 28:18, "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

He warned the disciples to be ready, keep watch, so they are accounted worthy but He never once mentioned that He know when the time would be even though many opportunities were presented.

Acts 1: 7, And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put IN HIS OWN POWER.  Note God the Father Himself has put this information in His own power, meaning it's for Him only to know.

Personally, I prefer to believe "what is written," in the book over and above what is not written.

In Jesus, Haz.

 

[coheir]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

There will be a pre-rapture of the saints and here are the reasons for it:

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not directly to the Earth but in the air where Christ meets the saints and takes them to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father (John14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16 , 17).

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the pre-trib., Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming,  the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Hazard may I add a couple verses

Zephaniah 2

3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Isaiah 26

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

1 Thess 1

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Rom 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

I believe these show the rapture and Rom 1 shows who will be in the wrath

 

 

[seeking the lost]

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

You do understand what We will not precede them means, don't you?  The resurrection does not occur until after The 1000 years are up.  How is that reflected in your statement?  You have moved the resurrection to before the tribulation or have you added one.  How many resurrections come before the first resurrection?  If you can show me the scripture that says the dead in Christ that are asleep at the time of the writing of Corinthians and Thessalonians are raised and go up then I will see a pre trib rapture.

[Ezra]

14 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

If you can show me the scripture that says the dead in Christ that are asleep at the time of the writing of Corinthians and Thessalonians are raised and go up then I will see a pre trib rapture.

But that is exactly what Scripture says in 1 Thessalonians. The Resurrection/Rapture is all of one piece, and has nothing to do with the Tribulation.