A closer look at "baptizo" (to baptize)

[nebula]

Nebula:

LOL! He's my lab assistant. His job is to help students learn the skeletal system.

Sorry to hear that about your lab assistant. It's good that even after death though, He still helps the students.

Actually, he's the plastic skeleton.

]Nebula:

I do not understand your reasoning. Faith is required whether there are miracles or not. Look at how many people rejected Jesus despite His miracles. The soldiers reporting back to the Pharisees et al about the resurrection didn't sway them, did it?

If we have to use our faith, then that requires us to believe something. It makes us responsible for what happens, for not listening to the Holy Spirit. It no longer becomes God's fault that we crashed our car, or Got hurt. It no longer becomes our fault that our kids die early as we just can't say the Lord in his wisdom saw evil to come and the Lord knowing what is better, took them from us. The Lord kept them from that great evil to come....... (Whatever that would have been.)

We will have to actually believe that the Child is santified by the believing parent and what the Parent has faith for and confesses determines the saftey of that child.

No fault religion takes a lot less work. It's God's fault and divine will, never mine.

Be blessed.

I fail to see how what it is you are saying means that the Holy Spirit would no longer impart to us these ministerial gifts.

[SoGrateful]

The beginning of the baptism with the Holy Spirit

John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit

“He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11).

The other gospels say the same (Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33).

Jesus instructed His disciples to wait for God's promise of spiritual power

”… Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem

until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)

Luke gives more details about Jesus' instructions

“… He commanded them … to wait for the promise of the Father

… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

… you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8)

Then, approximately 120 people received what was promised above

“When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty rushing wind, and it filled

the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire,

and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit

and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:1-4)

The baptism with the Holy Spirit (accompanied by speaking in tongues) results in spiritual power!

When one receives this baptism, the Holy Spirit always comes upon people (7 references).

When one is born again, the Holy Spirit always comes inside people (also 7 references).

For further study

“the promise” of this baptism is also the “gift” mentioned in Acts 2:37-39, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17.

Note: Acts 10:47-48 refers to receiving water baptism after receiving the Holy Spirit baptism.

Note: Acts 11:18 says since the Gentiles received this baptism, they must be saved.

Conclusion

How can people insist that this baptism is the born-again salvation experience?

This baptism is connected with tongues, and the spiritual “power” is the 9 spiritual gifts of 1 Cor 12.

Edited June 5, 2012 by SoGrateful

[deut31:12]

I don't deny the scriptures, but what is being said is that the baptism that we now recieve is the baptism of the HS nd that is incorrect as the scripture states that there is only one baptism and that is the baptism that the Apostles were commissioned to to do and teach. Acts 2:38 states that we receive the HS after that baptism. The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

The Bible doesn't teach that we no longer receive this baptism. On the contrary, Acts 2:39 says, "For this promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

No, I don't attend a tongue speaking church.

The baptism spoken of this passage is speaking of the water batism. The Apostles were commisioned by Jesus to go into all the world preaching the word and baptizing. (Mat 28) Since the Apostles cleary could not baptize people with the HS they could only do it with water. Look at this passage -

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

² He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

³ And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

⁴ Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

⁵ When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

⁶ And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

They were baptized and then they had Apostles hands put on them to receive the HS. Many teach we are baptized in or with the HS to get him. This batism was with water and even the Ethiopian eunich was baptized in water after he was taught. When you keep the same thought through this whole process you see the picture clearly.

1. John the Baptist baptized in WATER for repentance

2. When Jesus came to John the Baptist he and his disciples were baptized in WATER

3. Jesus taught that were are born of the Spirt by WATER (John 3)

4. The last commision that Jesus gave to his Apostles was to go into the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and HS (Apostles can't baptize with HS, so it had to be water)

5. The day of Pentecost there were over 3,000 souls saved AFTER they were baptized for the remission iof their sins. Again, the Apostles couldn't baptize anybody with the HS so it had to be water.

6. After the Ethiopian eunich was taught he was batized with water.

7. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? - Done with WATER

8. Acts 19:4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. WATER BAPTISM

What people are doing is taking certain miracles that happened at the time of the spreading of the gospel at that time and applying them today. All the while dismissing the things that we are supposed to be doing as not necessary. It is easier to live by the exception than by the rule.

[deut31:12]

I don't deny the scriptures, but what is being said is that the baptism that we now recieve is the baptism of the HS nd that is incorrect as the scripture states that there is only one baptism and that is the baptism that the Apostles were commissioned to to do and teach. Acts 2:38 states that we receive the HS after that baptism. The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

The Bible doesn't teach that we no longer receive this baptism. On the contrary, Acts 2:39 says, "For this promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

This baptism, in Acts 2:39, refers to water baptism, not baptism of HS.

[deut31:12]

I don't deny the scriptures, but what is being said is that the baptism that we now recieve is the baptism of the HS nd that is incorrect as the scripture states that there is only one baptism and that is the baptism that the Apostles were commissioned to to do and teach. Acts 2:38 states that we receive the HS after that baptism. The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

What we were commissioned to do is only what we can do. We cannot baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit. That, my friend, comes from God and Him alone. Can you see this?

You misunderstand what I was saying. I never said that we baptize anyone in the HS. The baptism the Apostles were commissioned to do is the baptism of water and I know that we can't baptize with the HS. That happed on the day of Pentecost and was for the help of spreading the gospel.

[deut31:12]

The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

Is there a Scripture for this, that the Holy Spirit no longer falls upon us?

~~

Acts 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. 13 Even Simon himself believed ; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed. 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19

1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed ?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

You are taking something that God allowed to be done back then to done to us today. The Apostles could pass on the gifts to people, but those people could not pass them on to anybody else. The specific gifts of speaking in tongues (which is nothing more than speaking another language to spreday the gospel to other nations), healing, drinking poison, rasing the dead, causing others to die (Anninias and Saphira), heall the sick, etc. The next time you think that these abilities the HS gave them back them apply to you today then trying doing everything they had the ability to do. If you really believe that we get the HS in the form of the same gifts that they got back then you should be able to everything that they did back then.

The way it was supposed to be for the rest of us and was promised to all those afar off is that when we hear the goepel and are pricked in our hearts we are supposed to repent and be baptized for the remission of our sins and THEN we will receive the gift of the HS. This is the faith that we aree saved by. After I hear the gospel through faith I repent and get baptized because through my faith I will have my sins remitted and get the HS. Through faith I know my sins will be forgiven in baptism**. Through my faith I know that I am added to the church. Through my faith I take the Lord's Supper or I have no life in me. Through my faith I daily repent of my sins and pray to God for forgiveness. Through faith I continue in the faith or I will be cut off (Rom 11:22). I show my faith through my works (obeying the gospel)

**Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Our sins are cut away.

[nebula]

The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

Is there a Scripture for this, that the Holy Spirit no longer falls upon us?

~~

Acts 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. 13 Even Simon himself believed ; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed. 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19

1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed ?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

You are taking something that God allowed to be done back then to done to us today. . . .

Is there a Scripture for this, that the Holy Spirit no longer falls upon us?

Does the Lord want us to operate on our own power or on His power, on our faith or on His faith?

As for the workings of miracles, I've heard many testimonies of those who have gone to places like India, Brazil, Haiti, Africa, etc. where they've laid hands on the sick, blind, etc. and they were healed. There's a video out on a woman paralyzed for 12 years walking again after being prayed over in an Alabama church.

Yes, the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is a misleading phrase and is not Biblical. Yet the principle of the Holy Spirit falling on people is Biblical. We are under the same New Covenant that the Apostles were under. Where did the Covenant change?

[SoGrateful]

The Holy Spirit has baptized us into one body (the church) ... Praise God!

But, Jesus baptizes some Christians with the Holy Spirit ... Praise God!

Two different things entirely.

I have 7 verses saying the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers:

John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16

I have 7 verses saying the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the HS baptism:

Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8 , Acts 2:1-4 , Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6

But, most Christians believe INSIDE and UPON are the same thing, i.e. all 14 verses refer to salvation!

7 verses omit the INSIDE placement.

7 verses omit the UPON placement.

IMO, the precious and mighty Holy Spirit does NOT need to come UPON people before going INSIDE of them.

Or, perhaps I misjudge Him ... perhaps He's a tad shy, and prefers to go in sloooooowly.

So I'm asking, does this make any sense to you?

Edited June 11, 2012 by SoGrateful

[OneLight]

I don't deny the scriptures, but what is being said is that the baptism that we now recieve is the baptism of the HS nd that is incorrect as the scripture states that there is only one baptism and that is the baptism that the Apostles were commissioned to to do and teach. Acts 2:38 states that we receive the HS after that baptism. The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

What we were commissioned to do is only what we can do. We cannot baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit. That, my friend, comes from God and Him alone. Can you see this?

You misunderstand what I was saying. I never said that we baptize anyone in the HS. The baptism the Apostles were commissioned to do is the baptism of water and I know that we can't baptize with the HS. That happed on the day of Pentecost and was for the help of spreading the gospel.

Do you believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit still happens? If not, when do you believe it ended?

[OneLight]

The baptism that is being expressed by the OP is one that was done at that time to help spread the gospel, but we no longer receive.

Is there a Scripture for this, that the Holy Spirit no longer falls upon us?

~~

Acts 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. 13 Even Simon himself believed ; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed. 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19

1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed ?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

You are taking something that God allowed to be done back then to done to us today. . . .

Is there a Scripture for this, that the Holy Spirit no longer falls upon us?

Does the Lord want us to operate on our own power or on His power, on our faith or on His faith?

As for the workings of miracles, I've heard many testimonies of those who have gone to places like India, Brazil, Haiti, Africa, etc. where they've laid hands on the sick, blind, etc. and they were healed. There's a video out on a woman paralyzed for 12 years walking again after being prayed over in an Alabama church.

Yes, the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is a misleading phrase and is not Biblical. Yet the principle of the Holy Spirit falling on people is Biblical. We are under the same New Covenant that the Apostles were under. Where did the Covenant change?

Matthew 3:11

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

What people make it out to be today is different, I agree, but it is scriptural.