speaking in tounges

[Guest]

Onelight:

You are judging those whom you know nothing about because of you personal convictions. Who can say someone who just preaches salvation in Christ is not doing His will, if they do not believe in the gifts??? Salvation is foremost His calling to us to preach. The gifts come with maturity.

I will say that being called and anointed to teach by the Holy Spirit as opposed to going to some school and choosing it as a profession makes a huge difference in power given out.

I am not disagreeing with you about the power of the Holy Spirit in a person, but tell me one thing, is God limited to use only those who follow His Spirit? Think hard on this ...

Head Banger

And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt. And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land. Exodus 11:9-10

Tail Twister

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Genesis 50:20

Is There Anything To Hard For Our LORD?

The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. Proverbs 21:1

Sorry UN But You Ain't The Man

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. Revelation 14:9-16

Maranatha~!

[Tinky]

Onelight:

I am not disagreeing with you about the power of the Holy Spirit in a person, but tell me one thing, is God limited to use only those who follow His Spirit? Think hard on this ...

God has used a billboard advertising some food and got something across to me, a secular song on the radio, and it dawns on me, a Donkey to save a prophet. What we are talking about though is going after what half our brothers and sisters are never taught, nor understand.

We have pastors combing there extensive libraries finding sermons to preach, and being prepared is great, and I am sure using your notes do apply, but most the time I have prepared, did my notes the Holy Spirit changed it, and now I have to teach with no notes, and just hope I can find the scriptures I hear, and speak as I listen. That is the point I am trying to make, the anointing and the gifts make a big difference in ones life, as opposed to not having them. Can God use someone without them being filled with the Holy Spirit, of course he can, but what greater use to have that anointing.

You are missing my point. Charles Stanley does not believe the gifts are for today, yet he preaches a strong message into the hearts of many as they walk with Christ. He is just one of many who God uses who do not believe in the operations of the gifts. The point is, if they are in His will, who are we to talk them down or try to correct them. Are they not His children and does He not move in them as He pleases? Or do you believe they are not saved and do nto rely on Him?

I am not a fan of Charles Stanley either. He made the mistake of going to a Baptist seminary, and got fully indoctrinated out of believing in the gifts of the Spirit. He also became a believer in unconditional eternal security. I just see him as a spokesman for the Baptist Church. I do believe he is a sincere, born again Christian. How are you coming to the conclusion that Charles Stanley is doing the will of God in what he is preaching? I think at least portions of his message are false.

Anyway, I don't want to start attacking Charles Stanley to make a point. He is better than many of the tv preachers out there. Everyone has some degree of error in their doctrine. One man I greatly admired was the late D. James Kennedy, but I didn't believe all his doctrine to be correct. The same thing applies to the late Adrian Rogers, another man I believe to be a true Christian, but not entirely correct on doctrine. We all have the amount of truth that was imparted to us, and some are more open to move beyond what we were taught in the church we grew up in or in the Bible college we attended. Some will never move past our indoctrination.

May I ask, what Bible teacher do you most trust?

[Citizenship]

Can you hear the sound? Iron Sharpening Iron...My goodness...Wow

Yeah.. sparks are flying everywhere. You'd better ... ... if you don't want to get scorched.

[OneLight]

Onelight:

Or do you believe they are not saved and do nto rely on Him?

Your coming up with some strange stuff I never said or hinted about. I am not a fan of Charles Stanley, but being spirit filled is always better. I am sure he is saved though. I read a lot of Peter Ruckman books and learned a lot about the integrity of the Kings James and he was against the gifts. I fully believe he was saved, but just like his Pentecostal friends would tell him, you can have power on High Peter and he would just say rubbish.

Jesus is Lord.

Your words cause me to consider the possibilities. You seem to divide those who believe in the Holy Spirit and those who do not; one group having His power and the other does not. These are only gifts to be used, but not the only tools to be used.

So you fully understand my stance, I believe in the gifts, but I will not discard those who do not.

[OneLight]

Onelight:

I am not disagreeing with you about the power of the Holy Spirit in a person, but tell me one thing, is God limited to use only those who follow His Spirit? Think hard on this ...

God has used a billboard advertising some food and got something across to me, a secular song on the radio, and it dawns on me, a Donkey to save a prophet. What we are talking about though is going after what half our brothers and sisters are never taught, nor understand.

We have pastors combing there extensive libraries finding sermons to preach, and being prepared is great, and I am sure using your notes do apply, but most the time I have prepared, did my notes the Holy Spirit changed it, and now I have to teach with no notes, and just hope I can find the scriptures I hear, and speak as I listen. That is the point I am trying to make, the anointing and the gifts make a big difference in ones life, as opposed to not having them. Can God use someone without them being filled with the Holy Spirit, of course he can, but what greater use to have that anointing.

You are missing my point. Charles Stanley does not believe the gifts are for today, yet he preaches a strong message into the hearts of many as they walk with Christ. He is just one of many who God uses who do not believe in the operations of the gifts. The point is, if they are in His will, who are we to talk them down or try to correct them. Are they not His children and does He not move in them as He pleases? Or do you believe they are not saved and do nto rely on Him?

I am not a fan of Charles Stanley either. He made the mistake of going to a Baptist seminary, and got fully indoctrinated out of believing in the gifts of the Spirit. He also became a believer in unconditional eternal security. I just see him as a spokesman for the Baptist Church. I do believe he is a sincere, born again Christian. How are you coming to the conclusion that Charles Stanley is doing the will of God in what he is preaching? I think at least portions of his message are false.

Anyway, I don't want to start attacking Charles Stanley to make a point. He is better than many of the tv preachers out there. Everyone has some degree of error in their doctrine. One man I greatly admired was the late D. James Kennedy, but I didn't believe all his doctrine to be correct. The same thing applies to the late Adrian Rogers, another man I believe to be a true Christian, but not entirely correct on doctrine. We all have the amount of truth that was imparted to us, and some are more open to move beyond what we were taught in the church we grew up in or in the Bible college we attended. Some will never move past our indoctrination.

May I ask, what Bible teacher do you most trust?

The Holy Spirit.

[OneLight]

Onelight:

I am not disagreeing with you about the power of the Holy Spirit in a person, but tell me one thing, is God limited to use only those who follow His Spirit? Think hard on this ...

God has used a billboard advertising some food and got something across to me, a secular song on the radio, and it dawns on me, a Donkey to save a prophet. What we are talking about though is going after what half our brothers and sisters are never taught, nor understand.

We have pastors combing there extensive libraries finding sermons to preach, and being prepared is great, and I am sure using your notes do apply, but most the time I have prepared, did my notes the Holy Spirit changed it, and now I have to teach with no notes, and just hope I can find the scriptures I hear, and speak as I listen. That is the point I am trying to make, the anointing and the gifts make a big difference in ones life, as opposed to not having them. Can God use someone without them being filled with the Holy Spirit, of course he can, but what greater use to have that anointing.

You are missing my point. Charles Stanley does not believe the gifts are for today, yet he preaches a strong message into the hearts of many as they walk with Christ. He is just one of many who God uses who do not believe in the operations of the gifts. The point is, if they are in His will, who are we to talk them down or try to correct them. Are they not His children and does He not move in them as He pleases? Or do you believe they are not saved and do nto rely on Him?

I am not a fan of Charles Stanley either. He made the mistake of going to a Baptist seminary, and got fully indoctrinated out of believing in the gifts of the Spirit. He also became a believer in unconditional eternal security. I just see him as a spokesman for the Baptist Church. I do believe he is a sincere, born again Christian. How are you coming to the conclusion that Charles Stanley is doing the will of God in what he is preaching? I think at least portions of his message are false.

Anyway, I don't want to start attacking Charles Stanley to make a point. He is better than many of the tv preachers out there. Everyone has some degree of error in their doctrine. One man I greatly admired was the late D. James Kennedy, but I didn't believe all his doctrine to be correct. The same thing applies to the late Adrian Rogers, another man I believe to be a true Christian, but not entirely correct on doctrine. We all have the amount of truth that was imparted to us, and some are more open to move beyond what we were taught in the church we grew up in or in the Bible college we attended. Some will never move past our indoctrination.

Charles Stanley has the salvation message down to the "T". This I agree with him on. We are called to make disciples of all nations, which begins with salvation. I have been to many Pentecostal churches that believe in the gifts, but that is mainly what they preach on. They spend very little time on salvation, maybe a few times a year.

Disciplining a person starts at the beginning and works its way through the whole message. It does not skip anything. Unfortunately, I have not found anyone outside of the Holy Spirit who does this.

[NeedYouLord]

Onelight:

I am not disagreeing with you about the power of the Holy Spirit in a person, but tell me one thing, is God limited to use only those who follow His Spirit? Think hard on this ...

God has used a billboard advertising some food and got something across to me, a secular song on the radio, and it dawns on me, a Donkey to save a prophet. What we are talking about though is going after what half our brothers and sisters are never taught, nor understand.

We have pastors combing there extensive libraries finding sermons to preach, and being prepared is great, and I am sure using your notes do apply, but most the time I have prepared, did my notes the Holy Spirit changed it, and now I have to teach with no notes, and just hope I can find the scriptures I hear, and speak as I listen. That is the point I am trying to make, the anointing and the gifts make a big difference in ones life, as opposed to not having them. Can God use someone without them being filled with the Holy Spirit, of course he can, but what greater use to have that anointing.

You are missing my point. Charles Stanley does not believe the gifts are for today, yet he preaches a strong message into the hearts of many as they walk with Christ. He is just one of many who God uses who do not believe in the operations of the gifts. The point is, if they are in His will, who are we to talk them down or try to correct them. Are they not His children and does He not move in them as He pleases? Or do you believe they are not saved and do nto rely on Him?

Ok...I'm still laughing at Citizenship's comment...Hahaha...Wait a minute...Ok maybe now...Ok...I'm scrolling down...That little man (I mean that little face)...Whew...God...You are good...

I knew God would make a way...and you know, Onelight...that God has quickened me on something that I have remained silent about...until now...I want to thank you for deleting a post a while back...I'm sorry...I was too upfront with someone...(someone that was too new) went back to find it later and it was gone...and The Holy Spirit checked me big time...Please forgive me...

I wanted to comment on something about Charles Stanley...I'm not a biographer or autobiographer...which ever it is...Hahaha...so I don't know certain things of course...but this I do know...When I was not saved and broke down in my workplace...(God had just made sure that a Christian man had just been hired before my breakdown...He is Amazing) so I only remember one thing he said: Don't you know that God loves you...I told him I didn't know that...and then his relatively new wife...Beautiful couple!!! Told me about Christian Radio...we had a station that I could listen to...Wow...That was the beginnings...a very long time ago...I do not know if at that time, Charles Stanley did believe in The Gifts...but I think he did...because I did see him on tv...one time...in more recent history where I heard him talking about how he didn't believe In The Gifts anymore...anyway...(not an autobiographer though...Hahaha) back to the point...When I was listening to Christian Radio there were 3 preachers...only 3 that I listened to faithfully...(1) Charles Stanley...(2) The preacher that had "Through The Bible" (can't remember his name-but I can still hear his voice-Wow) and (3) R.W. Schambach!!! "You don't have any problems-all you need is Faith In God"...I can still hear that today...Hahaha...Now I had no idea what "religion" any of them were...They never said...ever...that I remember...so this is what God used to bring me to desiring "The Gifts" there came a time on the radio when every one of those preachers were talking about The Gifts of The Holy Spirit...every one of them...and what was so impressed upon my heart was that I was sure they didn't know each other...I was sure they lived in different parts of the country...and How Could They All At The Same Time Be Talking About The Holy Spirit and His Gifts...and then...on that same radio station...There were Churches that were talking about they were having Holy Spirit Rallies...Oh my...LIke wow...I'm going...so here we are...many years later...being the mess I still am...Hahaha...There is one thing for sure that I have not given up on...(I give up easy...My daughter is my biggest cheerleader...Go mom go...Hahaha) Anyway...For some reason...I have this thing in me...I refuse to believe that God doesn't give gifts to us For Him To Use Through Us...

Oh I've been reading some posts too that just popped up...That is so true...We Don't Follow Men...We Follow Jesus...Lead and Guided By The Holy Spirit-That Brings Us Into All Truth...and even this that I just read In The Doctrines I recieved when I joined the church...even they recognize that others recognize that they seem to believe that The Gifts are Brought Way Out...at the expense of salvation etc...but even the doctrine acknowledges that in the end and (In my opinion) that the balance is there...It's amazing...maybe its the opposition that brings out the fight for it...anyway...I just know this too: Not directed at anybody and being the kind of person that gives up real fast on things...If something doesn't work pretty soon...then why try? But when God sends His Spirit in Baptism...There is no doubt!!! There is no question...There is no argument...That's what happened to me...and just like my Pastor said...24/7/365...and I've got too...He is on my Mind...He is In My Heart...He Is Before My Eyes...He is...oh my He Is!!! Whew...

Can you hear the sound? Iron Sharpening Iron...My goodness...Wow

Yeah.. sparks are flying everywhere. You'd better ... ... if you don't want to get scorched.

Citizenship...Thank you for this...Hahaha...But you know me...I'm running right into The Fire!!! Oh dear...

Love everybody In Him, Kathy

[enoob57]

The issue is not in the correct light! This filling of the Holy Spirit cannot mean you get a little and then by request you get more...

For God is unbounded and the least is as same as the Greatest ... This issue must be addressed before the understanding can

continue! Love, Steven

That is not true. There is a mention in the book of Acts of people that were believers, which would mean they did have the Spirit in measure, but they had not received the Holy Ghost Baptism of yet. They sent for the Apostles to come and pray for them to receive the Baptism. It is no differen't than water baptism, in that one church will do nothing more than sprikle water on your head, while another will completely submerge you in the water. There most definately is a difference. See Acts 8:14-17

Until you place the context of Acts into the context from which it is - transition from OT to NT you will make the same errors many

have made and are making. Simply Acts is the beginning of NT Church with Living Epistles being formed for that infant Church and the

required movement of God in that reality... To make any of the Acts accounts normative in todays Church is impossible for you have laying

on of hands and not; you have speaking in tongues and not; you have miracles and not etc. and in the attack of religiosity we imitate the

way instead of the ideal... we slowly drift into a form of- instead of substance of... that substance of is living and individually brought into

a unity of bond in God's Love and not form as you do this and you get this but rather Lord if you are willing! Love, Steven

The reason some churches have those things and others don't is because some believe and some don't. Nobody is trying to imitate the Book of Acts. Many of us just believe that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and that the things done in the book of Acts are available to the church today.

ah! the have and have nots... if by having I am, in my own opinion, elevated above another then I would ask from God to have not...

For the luster of greatness is not seen here in the elevated but in the one who in their own esteem of Christ desires to serve unseen as possible.

For attention upon oneself takes away from that which belongs solely to The Lord... Isn't He The Only One Who Did it All Perfectly.... Not One

Sin... As Man... the greatest perfect of all was His Glory in mercy to us who could not and His days were filled serving us in ways we coul not do

for ourselves! This is the power of God to create this heart here in this dark place able to be completely filled with His Truth no matter the

circumstance that comes upon it. A heart that reading the miracles of their hands in the beginning and knowing as though seeing themselves the

happenstance of the witness-> sufficient and not needing their reproduce to verify them that they are so... for I tell you now in love that it will not

be the heart that seeks verification of God through signs in the last of days that will stand an not be deceived! Our Lord has warned us 2Thes 2:9

and I think all my family should give attention to this in their own heart with Him in the aloneness ... Love, Steven

[enoob57]

The issue is not in the correct light! This filling of the Holy Spirit cannot mean you get a little and then by request you get more...

For God is unbounded and the least is as same as the Greatest ... This issue must be addressed before the understanding can

continue! Love, Steven

That is not true. There is a mention in the book of Acts of people that were believers, which would mean they did have the Spirit in measure, but they had not received the Holy Ghost Baptism of yet. They sent for the Apostles to come and pray for them to receive the Baptism. It is no differen't than water baptism, in that one church will do nothing more than sprikle water on your head, while another will completely submerge you in the water. There most definately is a difference. See Acts 8:14-17

Until you place the context of Acts into the context from which it is - transition from OT to NT you will make the same errors many

have made and are making. Simply Acts is the beginning of NT Church with Living Epistles being formed for that infant Church and the

required movement of God in that reality... To make any of the Acts accounts normative in todays Church is impossible for you have laying

on of hands and not; you have speaking in tongues and not; you have miracles and not etc. and in the attack of religiosity we imitate the

way instead of the ideal... we slowly drift into a form of- instead of substance of... that substance of is living and individually brought into

a unity of bond in God's Love and not form as you do this and you get this but rather Lord if you are willing! Love, Steven

The reason some churches have those things and others don't is because some believe and some don't. Nobody is trying to imitate the Book of Acts. Many of us just believe that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and that the things done in the book of Acts are available to the church today.

ah! the have and have nots... if by having I am, in my own opinion, elevated above another then I would ask from God to have not...

For the luster of greatness is not seen in the elevated but in the one who in their own esteem of Christ desires to serve unseen as possible.

For attention upon oneself takes away from that which belongs solely to The Lord... Isn't He The Only One Who Did it All Perfectly.... Not One

Sin... As Man... the greatest perfect of all was His Glory in mercy to us who could not and His days were filled serving us in ways we coul not do

for ourselves! This is the power of God to create this heart here in this dark place able to be completely filled with His Truth no matter the

circumstance that comes upon it. A heart that reading the miracles of their hands in the beginning and knowing as though seeing themselves the

happenstance of the witness-> sufficient and not needing their reproduce to verify them that they are so... for I tell you now in love that it will not

be the heart that seeks verification of God through signs in the last of days that will stand an not be deceived! Our Lord has warned us 2Thes 2:9

and I think all my family should give attention to this in their own heart with Him in the aloneness ... Love, Steven

A person can be just as proud of the fact they don't accept something as they can in accepting something. then you are giving witness there is no way that seems right to escape pride... In addition to that, there are a lot of gifted singers out there. I can't sing very well, so am I to envy the one that can sing, and be thankful I cannot because if I could, I might be lifted up in pride as better than everyone else? What about a Pastor with a natural gift to teach? Maybe I should be desiring not to have such an ability so I won't become prideful? Perhaps if the teaching is elevating your own person! This line of reasoning makes no sense to me. Matt 9:35-37 Also, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is available to all.Eph 4:4-6 It is not my fault some don't want it, and I never thought myself superior to anyone because I have received it. Why feel superior about something every Christian can have?

That is not what I have read above in others ... more power, more mature... and I don't wish to argue about religious practice!

Besides I have spoken my heart here and sense it is accomplished what God laid upon it to say besides I have received that which

I desire -small and insignificant... Praise God for this truth the smaller I become the greater He 'IS' ... I can't wait to get out of

this flesh and this world of darkness...for I despise and hate it!!! Love, Steven

[Sevenseas]

There may be a problem here with semantics...one person says something one way meaning something and another person would

not say that same thing in that way, so they 'read' it differently

I go by what scripture says regarding power and I know that is where the concept comes from. Let's not discuss abuse or even see

this through our own eyes. What does scripture state?

Here's an example:

But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you

wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you eternal life. Jude 20

So some here will say that praying in the Holy Spirit means praying in tongues and of course others will see that as wrong

and say that those who say it means tongues are wrong and it means in English (or whatever your normal language is)

because you cannot pray in tongues etc and it goes back and forth

Actually, I think it means both. BUT it definately means to pray IN the Holy Spirit which is ALWAYS IN the will of God

Romans 8 26,27 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.

I think the Bible is pretty clear here that no matter what language you pray in, the Holy Spirit should be helping you in your weakness

because you actually do NOT know all of the will of God or all the will of God for you . You cannot contradict that. Scripture

states that the HOLY SPIRIT is to help you in YOUR weakness.

I for one, know I need POWER to live for Christ and that comes from the Holy Spirit. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with making

a show or elevating oneself.

Jesus said this to the disciples:So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” .. Acts 1

Apparently, the disciples did not have this power BEFORE the Holy Spirit came upon them (Acts and beyond)

Jesus said that He can do nothing of Himself and I conclude that neither can we. We NEED the Holy Spirit but you still have

the option of saying no. You will still be sealed with the Holy Spirit but He will not operate in your life in the same manner

as someone who is baptized in the Holy Spirit

God can and does 'use' people who are not speaking in tongues...Paul states he speaks in tongues more than anyone..

you have a choice...I don't see this as a head banger

For the record, some of the most obnoxious people I have met in my journey through life are people who speak in tongues

and have no love. Oh yeah.,..they exist. Over emotionalism...where nothing is checked against the word and anything goes

helps no one either

The only One who should rule in your heart is Jesus Christ as Lord. As scripture states, let no man deceive you...and while

that is a specific application, I do believe we can see that as a general application.

Weeds grow where they will.....wheat grows where God plants it