....and the "dead" in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians

[Stan53]

The following is our understanding of what this passage means, along with some additional thoughts on prophecy.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

(13) But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. The Apostle Paul is informing the church at Thessalonica about loved ones that had passed away (“fallen asleep”) before them, to give them hope so they would not grieve.

(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him<those> who sleep in Jesus. The Apostle Paul explained that GOD would bring <those> who sleep in Jesus with Him when He returns.

(15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. The church is reassured that when the Lord returns, those who are alive and remain will not ascend (be caught-up) to be with the Lord before those who are “fallen asleep”.

(16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Here is what happened/happens. By a shout with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of GOD, Christ will descend from Heaven (with <those> who slept in Jesus He brings with Him), and the “dead in Christ” rise first (are born again). The “dead in Christ” are believers who have not repented and been forgiven of all trespasses to be born again and pass from death unto life by being made alive together with the Spirit of Christ. There are several reasons why they might not have been forgiven and born again. These might include: not being forgiven because of not repenting of the worldly lusts of the flesh and practicing unrighteousness (as a prodigal), for not being justified by the grace of GOD for their faith because of trying to be self-righteous or by following Law-like doctrine, for trusting in standards, traditions, or sacraments of the church for salvation rather than Christ alone, for trusting in the institution of a particular church denomination for salvation, or for not loving the brethren, as we were given command. When a believer is truly born again, we do not have to merely believe we have been saved, we can know it.

(17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with <them> in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. After the “dead in Christ” repent to be made alive in Christ, THEN, we who are alive in Christ and remain will be caught up together with <them> in the clouds (GOD brings with Him) to meet the Lord in the air. And we shall always be with the Lord.

(18) Therefore comfort one another with these words. Rising from being dead in trespasses and sins by being born again in Christ, preceeds our ascension by being caught-up together in the clouds with <them GOD brings with Him> to meet the Lord in the air.

These verses show that even though we are physically alive, we can be separated from GOD by our sins, or spiritually dead in our sins.

"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead (Revelation 3:1).

My son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry (Luke 15:24). The prodigal was a son of his father, but lost in the ways of the world and sin, he was as dead to his father; even as someone with Christ in them can be as dead by being out of fellowship with GOD because of sin in their life, or for not being forgiven by the grace of GOD for their faith in the name of Jesus Christ.

And many of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will see their dead bodies three days and a half, and they will not allow their dead bodies to be put in tombs (Revelation 11:9).

This prophecy is on the two witnesses (good and wild olive trees) born again Israelite and Gentile believers that were spiritually killed by legalistic church doctrine that came about 434 years (62 weeks) after the coming of Christ for the purpose of containing the overspreading of abominations (Daniel 9:27), until about 1260 years later, when those dead in their trespasses and sins (“dead in Christ”) began to rise again by the grace of GOD for their faith. This is similar to the Mosaic Law being added 430 after the covenant of faith between GOD and Abraham because of the transgression of the people (Galatians 3:17-19), until Christ fulfilled the Law by redeeming us from the curse by becoming a final sacrifice to atone for our sins once for all.

We are… well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).

When we are absent from the body by “putting off our earthly house”, we are present with the Lord.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed; we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens (2 Corinthians 5:1).

……..and the dead in Christ shall rise first. We live in an earthen body while we dwell on earth. The earth is our body, but our body is not us. We dwell in GOD the Father, Who makes us in His own likeness by conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ to become a son of GOD and heir of the Kingdom of GOD. GOD is our Father and we are His offspring; He is the Vinedresser that brings forth the fruit of the Spirit; He is the Refiner that purges us of our impurities to make us holy; and He is the Potter who shapes us into His own image as Christ is formed in us.

Our earthen body does not rise from the grave. We have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Ask yourself, if it is our earthen body that is raised, then what about a decomposed body that has dispersed and become part of a field that food is grown from that becomes the body of whoever or whatever eats food from that field; or the dust of a decomposed body that is carried away by the wind; or the earth from a decomposed body that is washed down a river and into the ocean, to be carried away by the current to wherever. Our earthen body is continually being recycled and changing, when we bathe, as our hair and nails are cut, as our body is nourished, as our body degenerates with age. We are a living soul that dwells within an earthen body. The soul is as dead by being our of fellowship with GOD because of sin, until we are reconciled to GOD and born again by being made alive together with the Spirit of Christ (Who is one with GOD our Father) when we are forgiven of all trespases.

And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"(John 11:26). Believers that are born of GOD never die. We have Eternal Life by the Holy Spirit of GOD in Christ being the life within us.

I give them Eternal Life, and they shall never perish; (John 10:28a). As Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17, because the Holy Spirit of GOD the Father (Who is Eternal Life) is in the Son (Jesus Christ), we are born again and have Eternal Life by being joined together with the Spirit of Christ when we are forgiven of all trespasses by repenting and confessing our sins.

…….but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, (2 Timothy 1:10). Because Christ tasted death for every man and was raised from the dead, He is alive forevermore, so that we are effectually joined together with Him into His death and raised incorruptible (born again) by being joined together with His Spirit when we are forgiven by repenting and confessing our sins, and death is thereby abolished.

With love in Christ,.......

You can quote the WHOLE Bible, but without context it means nothing here. Yes the dead(physically) in Christ will rise first, no dispute. Yes we will have incorruptible bodies when we rise. Is there a point you are trying to make? BTW, who is "our".

The "dead in Christ" are those who predeceased His second coming. ONLY Believers, NOT dead unbelievers. They are IN Christ. You cannot be IN Christ unless you have been spiritually born again as Jesus said. I KNOW I am born again. Only Christ knows who the sheep and goats are and that is why He will judge the living and the dead. You and I DON'T know. Every single man, woman and child will physically be raised from the dead at the judgment seat of Christ. They are NOT born again, they are raised from the dead. Rev 20:14-15 is the second death;

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

I'm afraid you have not read or not understood Rev 21. It shows we will LIVE in a New Earth FOREVER. Not in Heaven but ON Earth.

You have to be born again BEFORE you can enter the kingdom of God, which will be the New Earth. John 3:5;

Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless one is

born of water and Spirit

, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I am already born again and I look forward to Christ's second coming so I can LIVE forever.

[Stan53]

Every single man, woman and child will physically be raised from the dead at the judgment seat of Christ.

The Lord Judge his own which would be the Church? or we talking white throne judgement and everyone gets thrown into that?

Jesus Is Lord.

Rev 20:11-15

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³ The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. ¹⁵ Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

[xero]

kdb4747

Our earthen body does not rise from the grave.

Your missing some scripture here. Find it.

Though Im not kdb4747 I know the scripture you seek:

1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

[Stan53]

kdb4747

Our earthen body does not rise from the grave.

Your missing some scripture here. Find it.

Though Im not kdb4747 I know the scripture you seek:

1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Taking ONE verse does not a doctrine make...the verse needs to be in context with the whole section of scripture that Paul writes to explain the resurrection.

1Cor 15:35-53

But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”

36

How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

37

When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

38

But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.

39

Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.

40

There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

41

The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

43

it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

44

it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

46

The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.

47

The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

48

As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.

49

And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

51

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed —

52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the

dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

53

For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality

.

54

When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

[xero]

So overlook that flesh and blood cannot receive the Kingdom of God and overlook that a seed doesnt have the same body. This next verse is standalone:

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

[Stan53]

So overlook that flesh and blood cannot receive the Kingdom of God and overlook that a seed doesnt have the same body. This next verse is standalone:

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Yes xero, that is very true. We WILL be LIKE Him. Just as Christ was raised in a glorified body, we will be raised in a glorified body.

Luke 24: 36-53.... again scripture IN context and not a single verse.

³⁶ While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

³⁷ They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. ³⁸ He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? ³⁹ Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

⁴⁰ When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. ⁴¹ And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” ⁴² They gave him a piece of broiled fish, ⁴³ and he took it and ate it in their presence.

⁴⁴ He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

⁴⁵ Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. ⁴⁶ He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, ⁴⁷ and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. ⁴⁸ You are witnesses of these things. ⁴⁹ I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

⁵⁰ When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. ⁵¹ While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. ⁵² Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. ⁵³ And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

[Stan53]

xero

Our earthen body does not rise from the grave.

Though Im not kdb4747 I know the scripture you seek:

1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

I have another scripture also that our Earth body is used. Which makes me wonder what are we discussing here as it is used and raised.

What is Stans point? He gave the same conclusion that it is our body that gets raised from the grave.

Jesus Is Lord.

The OP was, and the "dead" in Christ shall rise first.

It would appear some believe ONLY our spirit rises, NOT our body. This of course is ignoring scripture that shows our body is raised and our soul/spirit is rejoined with the NEW body.

[Bold Believer]

It is the EARTHLY BODY which IS changed. It is likened to a seed. You put a seed into the ground, that seed dies and comes up as something else. It's changed.