ayin jade Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2012 Lack of faith will keep your broke. Explain Bill Gates. Explain the fortune 500. They are not men of faith. Yet they are far from broke. Great faith is no determination of getting wealth. And that is a contradiction with your prior statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 There is some bad teaching, no matter what denomination. Word of Faith teaching is not that. Lack of faith will keep your broke. Great faith is no determination of getting wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2012 Lack of faith will keep your broke. Explain Bill Gates. Explain the fortune 500. They are not men of faith. Yet they are far from broke. As yet unanswered. Explain please the fortunes of Bill Gates and other unbelievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldShep Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 137 Days Won: 6 Joined: 07/20/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1950 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Lack of faith will keep your broke. Explain Bill Gates. Explain the fortune 500. They are not men of faith. Yet they are far from broke. As yet unanswered. Explain please the fortunes of Bill Gates and other unbelievers. Most are lovers of this world and all that they have will be lost, as Christians we need to look beyond this earth and the riches that will melt away upon Christ Return. Gal 6:6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Gal 6:8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Gal 6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Gal 6:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. 1Co 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Co 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 1Co 3:13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 1Co 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 1Co 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. ICL~~~Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Why is it always about the money? Go back and read my post's if you will, but here is what I beleive. Having great wealth is not a sin, nor is having no wealth. Having no wealth does not make you more "Christian", that someone with wealth, and having great wealth does not make you any different in God's eyes from someone who has no wealth. It is about how you use what you have in your hands, and the bible is full of examples of this. It is about blossoming where you are planted. God decide's who recieves, as it is all His anyway. But what we do with it is called free will. Now. if I needed a jet to spread the Word to far flung places, and my motives were loving and obeying God, and honoring Him in everything I did, what would be wrong about spending some of His blessing on a jet? But if I was wealthy, and had no children, and not that many visitors, then living in a 23 bedroomed mansion would probably be wrong. One is correct motive and one is mammon. There are no easy answers to this, because there are too many questions. But prosperity gospel is wrong, and so is saying you are poor and live in a mud hut because you lack faith. That really gets me angry. Some of the most faith filled people I know, who Love Jesus, live in mud huts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2012 There is more to the whole plan besides what Jesus did at the Cross. The cross was just part of the Work. I think we all realise that Mike...but what I am arguing against is that part of the 'work' did not involve an ongoing struggle in Hell having devils jumping all over what seemed like the defeated spiritual remains of the Son of G-d...I am trying to throw away the 'dross' that some people have attached to the account...which directly detracts from what is true....what is so hard to understand about this? BOTZ: Those that have trashed Joyce don't even believe Jesus went to hell and the cross (Just the point where Jesus died) was the complete work. Scripture does not even say that. To be saved you also have to believe He came out of hell. The Buried in Baptism with him came from Him being raised from the dead. (Rom 6:4) The whole salvation package did not just get competed at the cross, the whole work of the cross included him being in Hell, Hell not holding him, and him being raised from the dead. I don't think anyone here has said what you claim. I have been careful to point out that Joyce has added to the atonement, and that in doing so she is at odds with Scripture...I am not trying to trash her, or pour cold water on her ministry as such...but I am obligated and compelled to direct peoples attention to this. That is what Joyce was trying to piece together. She revised her book from 1991 because I am sure like us, she realized she made some statements that did not have very strong scriptural support. It's the year 2012 So are you now telling me..."Yes Botz, I see your point, and Joyce was wrong in what she originally wrote...but for your information that is no longer her stance." If that is the case then great...I did not realise she had turned from holding this unbiblical doctrine that is supported by some in WoF, particularly Copeland... but I have never heard her challenge Copeland over this...maybe he has dropped it as well? BOTZ................................ For anyone here to even comment, and be right, then they themselves must have been perfect in doctrine the first time they spoke of the bible. With no more room to learn, or correct. As my point with all the articles that single out 1991, they don't even believe Jesus went to Hell, just believe it was just at the cross where complete victory comes from, and I just gave several scriptures that prove a whole lot different. Not many here have set themselves up as bona fide Teachers/Preachers....sure we are all learning and getting a better/deeper/fuller understanding of our faith as we fellowship with G-d, fellowship with one another and continue to abide in Him and be led by the Spirit....we can have all sorts of disagreements on this site, and yet learn to love and respect each other....but when something is so obviously seen as unbiblical, then be sure people are not going to button their lip....until it has been thrashed out a bit. I think what some people see is that there is a bit of contempt and bullying tactics going on that want to control what people can legitimately point out....reminds me of Benny Hinn and his pointy finger telling everyone to be careful they don't touch G-ds 'anointed'...thankfully this doesn't work with everyone. I have not got into the Prosperity 'thang' in this thread, as it is subsidary to this main doctrinal abberation, and I prefer to nail this major concern. Kind regards. Botz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2012 Fez, I've been away so did not get back to you. I apologize to you as it appears some thought I was being rude to you. I was getting fed up with answering what I perceived I had already answered, so please let me try again. Why is it always about the money? For me, it is genuinely not always about the money. It is, as I believe you have written yourself, about a myriad of things. I found Meyers remarks regarding being rewarded now (with all the money because that was what she was referring to in the interview I quoted from) as tacky to say the least. It is not a true picture of so called rewards and not valid whatsoever when you consider people that are probably far more faithful than her may have nothing at all. IMO, and from what I can tell scripture states, neither conclusion would be correct. Go back and read my post's if you will, but here is what I beleive. Having great wealth is not a sin, nor is having no wealth. Having no wealth does not make you more "Christian", that someone with wealth, and having great wealth does not make you any different in God's eyes from someone who has no wealth. I agree with your statement above. It is about how you use what you have in your hands, and the bible is full of examples of this. It is about blossoming where you are planted. God decide's who recieves, as it is all His anyway. But what we do with it is called free will. Yes, but I would prob word it differently, but fine. Now. if I needed a jet to spread the Word to far flung places, and my motives were loving and obeying God, and honoring Him in everything I did, what would be wrong about spending some of His blessing on a jet? Nothing. But when you have people like Meyers and Hinn who are using money garnered from a ministry they SAY is the Lords to exercise their lust for more and more and more, well, I find that not honoring to the gospel whatsoever. Then, Meyers states that she is being rewarded (from God), referring to her riches. How misleading is that? That is when I ask "Is that why Christ died, so you could have a $10,000.00 bathroom added to your already over bathroomed mansion?" and then state you have been rewarded? If you disagree with me on this, fine, but kindly respect that this is what I meant concerning money and the use thereof Money, was not even the main event regarding Meyers that I posted. Some of her doctrine is so wrong, that it could lead people way off somewhere and into even more error...such as what people have been discussing since my last post. I also posted, as have others, that she is a decent motivational speaker...a Bible teacher, not so much. I find her likeable because she identifies with people...and I don't care if she draws a big salary or makes big buckaroos from her many book sales. I hope this is clear now. To state that God is rewarding you because you are 'faithful' smacks of 'if you do not have the dollars rolling in, then maybe God is not so pleased with you.' Again, hope this is clear now. And even if you disagree, respectfully, understand this is what I believe scripture would state. But if I was wealthy, and had no children, and not that many visitors, then living in a 23 bedroomed mansion would probably be wrong. One is correct motive and one is mammon. There are no easy answers to this, because there are too many questions. But prosperity gospel is wrong, and so is saying you are poor and live in a mud hut because you lack faith. That really gets me angry. Some of the most faith filled people I know, who Love Jesus, live in mud huts. Well we agree on the prosperity gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 24, 2012 God said it through Peter thet best.... 2 Pe 3:10-13 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. NKJV Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 24, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2012 Had the devil known, he would have never killed our Lord. He is dumb. I don't see this party in Hell the devil threw, I don't see Jesus in the ring, beating the devil to a pulp. He got the Keys of Hell and death from him. Because death could not hold him, that is most likely how he got them. Not some big throw down. The bible tells us Jesus went willingly to the cross. The devil didnt kill Him. Also I disagree that Jesus got the keys of hell from the devil. The devil does not rule in hell. Hell was made to be a place of punishment for the fallen angels. Not for them to rule. Matthew 25:41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand , Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. The bible said the whole reason Jesus came, was because of the devil. That is scripture. Scripture says Jesus came to redeem man. Because man sinned and fell from grace. God didnt excuse the sins of man when eve tried to blame the devil. He held adam and eve accountable for their own sin. Well............ Joyce is WOF, so she still must be spoke ill of................ I'll throw Kenneth Copeland in there and the rest. Just being WOF means it's wrong anyway........... so THERE!!! There is no need to get emotional and react in anger. Lets discuss instead what scripture says. The Baptist preach against tongues.........God loves dead soldiers!!!!! All Baptist are bad.......... Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists.............. Gay OK!!!!! The Methodist Took a Gay vote in 2012, Florida. How do we get in such a dark place to even hold a vote? It almost passed. Presbyterian ................. Gay Vote........... Pass. Lutheran.............. Gay Vote......... Pass. Episcopal.............3.5 million members.............. Gay vote....... Passed with Joy even. I know nobody here would associate with any of these evil organizations based on your comments about WOF. We surely do not have hypocrites. Again there is no need to react in anger. Insulting folks is not a good way of reaching them. If you have been here awhile you would know that folks here speak out against homosexuality. I personally see the mainline denominations as falling into apostacy based on their views of homosexuality among other insidious doctrines creeping in. Feel free to start a thread on this yourself if you wish. I guess we should all just shut up about Jesus and the bible until we are perfect. Once perfect, and having complete understanding of everything then we can go out and speak. Though it will be to late once we get to that point. When someone sets themselves up as pastor or teacher, one should expect their words to be examined as Paul praised the Bereans for doing to his words. Examined in the light of scripture to see if they are true words. Every believer should be open to correction via scripture of false views. Instead of reacting with emotional hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted July 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2012 In prison I had a group of men I was sharing the Word with. I was so excited about what Jesus did, and what I pictured on the cross, that I explained to them even his bones were broken for us. That is how much pain and suffer he did for us. That is what I told them, back in 1997. His bones were not broken. I did not see that yet, it's just what I pictured. I was trying my best to convey to these men what a awesome Work Jesus did. What I pictured. I guess we should all just shut up about Jesus and the bible until we are perfect. Once perfect, and having complete understanding of everything then we can go out and speak. Though it will be to late once we get to that point. I can appreciate exactly what you are expressing here Mike...I'm sure everyone of us has said things that aren't biblically correct, or have an imperfect understanding on some parts of Scripture. I would hate for anyone to have recorded my words or thoughts 20 years back and hold me to them now....seriously I have not been trying to do this with Joyce Meyer, and am perfectly open to being wrong about things she is purported to have said, or to have not realised she has distanced herself from a heretical stance on the atonement....but the evidence strongly suggests that many leaders in the movement consistantly preach this false doctrine....and as it is foundational to the Faith, the obvious worry is what else could be built upon it....we must have the foundation of our faith solid, or everything else will be susceptible to falling dowm. Part of my concern in the WoF movement is that there is a mixture within its ranks, where some of the teachings from some of the key players are totally unbiblical, and people do not challenge what they hear, make excuses and defend the indefensible...and the hardest thing is that this sort of deception is very hard to pin-point or be precise about because it varies from person to person and teacher to teacher. There are some who generalise and deplore the whole movement...but there are others who are deeply concerned and try to accurately point out some distinct flaws that need to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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