The Mark of the Beast

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Adstar,

As I have previously stated, we must look to the "Seal upon the forehead of the Saints" in order to understand the MoB. I can't stress this enough. That seal is the "Seal of the Holy Spirit" (II Cor 2:21-22). Satan does the the same thing.

Also, if you will note the various signs or marks of the OT are all physical, but in the NT, the signs and marks are "spiritual". For instance when it came time for a slave to the Hebrews/Israelites to be set free, if the slave wanted to continue on with their master, they would allow the master to put an "awl" in the lobe of their ear. This was to signify that they were not a permanent possession of their owner.

In the NT, when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, that is God's pronouncement upon us that we are no longer our own, but we have been bought for a price.

Now, consider the number of "possessions" which in recent times have increased more and more. These people fall so far into sin that they literally "sell their soul" into bondage to Satan. So when you consider how the world rejoices over the "Two Witnesses", and how EVIL Babylon has become, then I believe it becomes painfully obvious that Satan has bought those lost souls with the promises of this world.

One other thing. The "Chang factor" can never happen. No one can be FORCED by anyone or anything else to RECEIVE the MoB. They must do so willingly and voluntarily. Their very will becomes manipulated by the "antichrist spirit". No "physical mark" is needed.

But like I originally said, I don't think I will be motivated to take the "chip" if anyone attempts to enforce it upon me. But there again, I COULD be hit over the head and one inserted under my skin. If this were the case then it would make a lie out of the verse that says that all who have the MoB, will go to perdition.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest PWN3D]

When that time comes, and parents decide that there children will receive the Mark of the Beast, will these children be damned to Hell? In Revelation, it says that all who receive the mark will have the wrath of God to deal with, plus the Lake of Fire.

So, will children also suffer judgments if their parents decide that they should take it?

I wouldn't think it would because unless the have to ablity to chose from right or wrong or can controll what they do. I think that Children meaning Infants.. children like that will no be damned to hell... They dont really know right from wrong yet

[dgolvach]

Dosen't the Bible set up an age of accountability? David lost a child and God told him that he would not get the child back but one day he would go to where the child was.

Dan

[Adstar]

Dosen't the Bible set up an age of accountability? David lost a child and God told him that he would not get the child back but one day he would go to where the child was.

Dan

I believe so dgolvach but it is an age not stated. maybe it varied depending on the individuel i,m sure God knows

All Praise the Ancient Of Days

PS: Dad Ernie i will look into the thoughts you have shared. At the moment i am not in the right frame of mind to do them justice, i am very upset. Nothing to do with you or your post friend.

[tsth]

Greetings Adstar,

As I have previously stated, we must look to the "Seal upon the forehead of the Saints" in order to understand the MoB. I can't stress this enough. That seal is the "Seal of the Holy Spirit" (II Cor 2:21-22). Satan does the the same thing.

Also, if you will note the various signs or marks of the OT are all physical, but in the NT, the signs and marks are "spiritual". For instance when it came time for a slave to the Hebrews/Israelites to be set free, if the slave wanted to continue on with their master, they would allow the master to put an "awl" in the lobe of their ear. This was to signify that they were not a permanent possession of their owner.

In the NT, when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, that is God's pronouncement upon us that we are no longer our own, but we have been bought for a price.

Now, consider the number of "possessions" which in recent times have increased more and more. These people fall so far into sin that they literally "sell their soul" into bondage to Satan. So when you consider how the world rejoices over the "Two Witnesses", and how EVIL Babylon has become, then I believe it becomes painfully obvious that Satan has bought those lost souls with the promises of this world.

One other thing. The "Chang factor" can never happen. No one can be FORCED by anyone or anything else to RECEIVE the MoB. They must do so willingly and voluntarily. Their very will becomes manipulated by the "antichrist spirit". No "physical mark" is needed.

But like I originally said, I don't think I will be motivated to take the "chip" if anyone attempts to enforce it upon me. But there again, I COULD be hit over the head and one inserted under my skin. If this were the case then it would make a lie out of the verse that says that all who have the MoB, will go to perdition.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dear DadErnie,

In response to your post about the specific marks, I do hope you considered my previous post on this thread with regard to the references to "marks" upon people in the hand or head.

You cannot ignore the fact that these are prominently mentioned as being in the hand and head, as is the mark of the beast. One is the approved of God, the other is not.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings tsth,

In response to your post about the specific marks, I do hope you considered my previous post on this thread with regard to the references to "marks" upon people in the hand or head.

You cannot ignore the fact that these are prominently mentioned as being in the hand and head, as is the mark of the beast. One is the approved of God, the other is not.

I think you must agree that Revelation has a lot of "symbolic" language in it. As with "anthropomorphic symbology", these symbols often convey more truth in them than a "literal" interpretation might afford. I am most heartily a "literalist", but I do take into account metaphors, symbols, and all the other "types" of language the Bible uses, but in the case of the "right hand and the forehead", I believe these to be absolutely "symbolic".

Why only the "right hand", why not the "left hand" too? Why the forehead? Don't you find it interesting that this is the same place the "seal" is placed upon His saints by God? Shouldn't that be the heart, the seat of who we are?

I see these as being connected, only opposite. Our "works" follow our NEW spirit by which we are sealed, so no need to put a "seal upon our right hand", but the deeds of an unbeliever, one who "takes the MoB", is revealed by BOTH his worldview thinking AND his works, and in this case, each is as important as the other.

For example, if a person votes for Kerry, then he is tacitly or intentionally agreeing that abortion and homosexuality is okay, his attention is focused on the economy, the war, welfare and the things of THIS world. It is important to recognize that many so called Christians are voting for Kerry. Why? Because their focus is NOT on the Lord's wishes, but instead is focused on the world. So these so-called Christians maintain the WORLD's worldview, their thoughts and "spirit" are all motivated along these lines. On the other hand you have those who advocate these evil things, and their WORKS reveal them to be OF THIS WORLD.

On the other hand, he who has the "mind of Christ" WILL not vote for Kerry, because his mind is on "spiritual matters", and the works he performs will correlate with his Father's wishes.

So if you "have the mind of Christ", then you are sealed upon the FOREHEAD with the Seal of the Holy Spirit,

but,

if you have the MoB, then one of two things wills identify you as to who you really are:

1) You will tacitly agree with the Beast, that means by ignoring the weightier matters of God, by doing nothing or even the very least, by casting a vote, you are supporting the Beast. (mark on the forehead)

OR

2) You will adamantly reject God and replace Him with your own God and will work mightily to impart your will upon others. (mark on the RIGHT hand)

In the end it is going to boil down to two idiologies. Either you will have a Christian worldview, or you will have a SECULAR worldview. This is WHERE the difference lies. Guess which one has the MoB already?

Right now, it is up to TRUE Christians to "pull as many as we can from the fire".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[tsth]

Greetings tsth,

In response to your post about the specific marks, I do hope you considered my previous post on this thread with regard to the references to "marks" upon people in the hand or head.

You cannot ignore the fact that these are prominently mentioned as being in the hand and head, as is the mark of the beast. One is the approved of God, the other is not.

I think you must agree that Revelation has a lot of "symbolic" language in it. As with "anthropomorphic symbology", these symbols often convey more truth in them than a "literal" interpretation might afford. I am most heartily a "literalist", but I do take into account metaphors, symbols, and all the other "types" of language the Bible uses, but in the case of the "right hand and the forehead", I believe these to be absolutely "symbolic".

Why only the "right hand", why not the "left hand" too? Why the forehead? Don't you find it interesting that this is the same place the "seal" is placed upon His saints by God? Shouldn't that be the heart, the seat of who we are?

I see these as being connected, only opposite. Our "works" follow our NEW spirit by which we are sealed, so no need to put a "seal upon our right hand", but the deeds of an unbeliever, one who "takes the MoB", is revealed by BOTH his worldview thinking AND his works, and in this case, each is as important as the other.

For example, if a person votes for Kerry, then he is tacitly or intentionally agreeing that abortion and homosexuality is okay, his attention is focused on the economy, the war, welfare and the things of THIS world. It is important to recognize that many so called Christians are voting for Kerry. Why? Because their focus is NOT on the Lord's wishes, but instead is focused on the world. So these so-called Christians maintain the WORLD's worldview, their thoughts and "spirit" are all motivated along these lines. On the other hand you have those who advocate these evil things, and their WORKS reveal them to be OF THIS WORLD.

On the other hand, he who has the "mind of Christ" WILL not vote for Kerry, because his mind is on "spiritual matters", and the works he performs will correlate with his Father's wishes.

So if you "have the mind of Christ", then you are sealed upon the FOREHEAD with the Seal of the Holy Spirit,

but,

if you have the MoB, then one of two things wills identify you as to who you really are:

1) You will tacitly agree with the Beast, that means by ignoring the weightier matters of God, by doing nothing or even the very least, by casting a vote, you are supporting the Beast. (mark on the forehead)

OR

2) You will adamantly reject God and replace Him with your own God and will work mightily to impart your will upon others. (mark on the RIGHT hand)

In the end it is going to boil down to two idiologies. Either you will have a Christian worldview, or you will have a SECULAR worldview. This is WHERE the difference lies. Guess which one has the MoB already?

Right now, it is up to TRUE Christians to "pull as many as we can from the fire".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Actually I was referring to the "Commandments", and the comments I had made about them previously.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings TSTH,

Deut. 6:6 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Sorry. I thought you were somehow referring to my immediate prior post. But since you are not, I looked up "hand" and "frontlets" and this is what I found:

03027 yad {yawd}

a primitive word; TWOT - 844; n f

AV - hand 1359, by 44, consecrate + 04390 14, him 14, power 12, them 11,

places 8, tenons 6, thee 6, coast 6, side 5, misc 130; 1615

1) hand

1a) hand (of man)

1b) strength, power (fig.)

1c) side (of land), part, portion (metaph.) (fig.)

1d) (various special, technical senses)

1d1) sign, monument

1d2) part, fractional part, share

1d3) time, repetition

1d4) axle-trees, axle

1d5) stays, support (for laver)

1d6) tenons (in tabernacle)

1d7) a phallus, a hand (meaning unsure)

1d8) wrists

02903 towphaphah {to-faw-faw'}

from an unused root meaning to go around or bind; TWOT - 804a; n f

AV - frontlet 3; 3

1) bands, phylacteries, frontlets, marks

I would venture to bet that in the Talmud or other ancient writings of the Jews, there are some long dissertations about those verses.

But what immediately strikes me is the idea that the Pharisees wore their scriptures on their sleeve, so to speak. As I understand it, they wore "phylacteries" on the border of their garments and each contained verses which they had memorized.

Here again we see the Jews looking at God's Word as something to be worn on the OUTSIDE, and that is probably why Jesus swore to them that they washed the cup on the outside and forgot the inside.

As Christians, we are told that we have no need of someone teaching us because the Holy Spirit was to come and "lead us unto all truth". So a Christian may appear a little "dirty" on the outside, but the Word has washed the inside clean as the Holy Spirit has worked IN us.

Just some thoughts.....

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[tsth]

Here is the connection as I see it DadErnie:

I hope you'll take a look, although you might have already seen it.

The Force and 10 Horns

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings TSTH,

Quote from your "other" posting:

The end time prophecy of the 10 horns.......could this signify the covetousness of men and the esteeming of men above God, an abomination? Does man now try to "force" his way in to heaven, in total disregard for the laws and commands of our God? Is this the end-time abomination?

Have you considered John 10? I see the "sheep" as the "called out ones" in Revelation. The "horns" could very well be "types of spirits" that are prevelant in this days' world. It is interesting how many "spiritists" or of the like, that live today. They reject the WHOLE Word of God, and selectively use it to support their inclination to become GODS.

I find it comforting that "the sheep will ONLY follow Christ, because they don't recognize the voice of anyone else. I see that aplenty in the forums. You can tell which ones really KNOW their God. My spirit jumps within me when I come across another TRUE believer. Fortunately on this board, I find a great abundance of REAL SHEEP.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie